From Rejection to Reinvention: A Journey through Storytelling and Creativity

Lee: 00:00:00

So I have this, I don't know why I have the illustration of like a seed,

Lee: 00:00:03

like when it's something painful or something that we feel like we lost,

Lee: 00:00:06

like we're letting it go, we're putting it in the ground, just letting it go.

Lee: 00:00:08

But then like we could return later and it's got fruit, shade, comfort,

Lee: 00:00:12

you know, beauty to it years later.

Lee: 00:00:15

You know, or maybe it's just,

Mark: 00:00:18

it's gone, but you let it go truly only something that can be traced back to

Mark: 00:00:23

its origin from the perspective that mad.

Mark: 00:00:25

Now I'm like, Oh, I knew all along that this was heading in that

Mark: 00:00:29

direction is like, I didn't know.

Mark: 00:00:30

You're right.

Mark: 00:00:31

It's, it's very much that seed.

Mark: 00:00:33

If you buy a packet of them and it's just mixed seeds, you don't know what they are.

Mark: 00:00:38

But if you are planting them and planting each one, things do happen over time.

Mark: 00:00:44

Things do come back around in ways that are totally unexpected.

Lee: 00:00:55

Hello, and welcome back to wildly wealthy life, the podcast.

Lee: 00:00:59

And I am very excited about today's episode.

Lee: 00:01:03

Get ready to set your hearts ablaze, ladies and gentlemen.

Lee: 00:01:07

Uh, Mark Witten.

Lee: 00:01:09

Is a LA based actor working in animation and video games with companies like

Lee: 00:01:14

DreamWorks, Disney, Netflix, if you've heard of any of these, DC, Sony

Lee: 00:01:20

PlayStation, Square Enix, Nintendo, Bethesda, EA, and a whole bunch more.

Lee: 00:01:27

Notable roles include Kyojuru Rengoku from Demon Slayer, The Flame Ashara.

Lee: 00:01:34

Uh, Kadenkara Kazuya from Genshin Impact, Dr.

Lee: 00:01:38

Kurt Connors, uh, which is basically the lizard, um, from Marvel's Spider Man 2,

Lee: 00:01:45

uh, Cetus from Fire Emblems, The Three Houses, O from Home, Adventures of Tip

Lee: 00:01:50

and O, uh, Leslie Kyle, From, I think, not I think, I know, my favorite video

Lee: 00:01:59

game franchise, Final Fantasy VII, the remake, and Alex in Street Fighter V,

Lee: 00:02:05

which I have on my PlayStation right now.

Lee: 00:02:08

Mark is also co creator, actor, voice director for the popular horror podcast,

Lee: 00:02:13

The Hotel, and the award winning sci fi anthology, The Theater of Tomorrow.

Lee: 00:02:21

Yeah.

Kat: 00:02:25

Hey, my name is Kat,

Lee: 00:02:26

and I'm Lee,

Kat: 00:02:27

and welcome to the

Lee: 00:02:28

Wildly Wealthy Life podcast.

Lee: 00:02:32

In this show, we explore the journey of what it means to live a truly

Lee: 00:02:35

exceptional and fulfilling life.

Kat: 00:02:37

Each episode focuses on how a foundation of brilliant minds and

Kat: 00:02:40

brave hearts nurtured through the arts leads to lifelong success.

Lee: 00:02:45

Get inspired with actionable tips to foster a growth

Lee: 00:02:47

mindset, leadership values.

Lee: 00:02:49

And creativity and children and adults turning their potential into lasting

Lee: 00:02:53

contributions for their communities.

Kat: 00:02:55

We hope that you embrace the challenge to shift your perspective as we

Kat: 00:02:59

equip you and the next generation for a

Lee: 00:03:02

wildly wealthy life.

Kat: 00:03:12

Normally, we do our takeaway standing up so you guys can see

Kat: 00:03:15

our matching cat samurai t shirts.

Kat: 00:03:18

But today, if you're watching, if you're listening on Spotify, watch it

Kat: 00:03:22

on YouTube, we have Boogie on Lee's arms, so we can't stand up and that's

Kat: 00:03:27

why we're recording our takeaways here.

Lee: 00:03:30

Sweet.

Lee: 00:03:31

Uh, my takeaway, uh, we need to go visit Mark.

Lee: 00:03:37

Hi, Mark.

Lee: 00:03:38

If you're listening, hit me up, brother.

Lee: 00:03:41

Let's go get some coffee or head over to the closest cat cafe and have some laughs.

Kat: 00:03:46

Yeah.

Kat: 00:03:47

Um, my takeaway is, uh, just his letting go, letting things come full

Kat: 00:03:53

circle, trusting, uh, doing your best, being excellent at your work.

Kat: 00:03:59

And then his take on a wildly wealthy life at the very end.

Kat: 00:04:02

I felt like very, very.

Kat: 00:04:04

Um, a valuable.

Kat: 00:04:05

So don't miss that.

Kat: 00:04:07

That was really an amazing interview.

Lee: 00:04:09

Yeah.

Lee: 00:04:10

Uh, I also just enjoyed the sharing of your gift

Kat: 00:04:14

that

Lee: 00:04:14

he talked about.

Lee: 00:04:15

So we all have different skill sets that we're trying to develop.

Lee: 00:04:20

We all have different expertise and things that we're good at

Lee: 00:04:24

and letting those things shine.

Lee: 00:04:26

And it's a good reminder to just keep pressing into your hobbies, the

Lee: 00:04:30

things that you love, and there's going to be fruit that comes from it.

Lee: 00:04:33

So I think that's some of the bigger lessons that are.

Lee: 00:04:36

Are coming out from this episode.

Kat: 00:04:38

Awesome.

Kat: 00:04:39

Let's bring mark in

Kat: 00:04:49

Is it a home studio you're

Lee: 00:04:51

in mark

Kat: 00:04:52

hi

Mark: 00:04:54

Good to see you.

Mark: 00:04:55

What's up?

Kat: 00:04:55

It's good to see you.

Kat: 00:04:56

I said, is

Mark: 00:04:56

that a home studio you're in?

Mark: 00:04:58

Yes This is my my little home studio here

Kat: 00:05:01

your magic booth.

Kat: 00:05:01

Very

Mark: 00:05:02

cool in a booth in a magic booth right now Yeah,

Mark: 00:05:04

there's uh, there's wonderful.

Mark: 00:05:06

Uh um Construction stuff happening outside today.

Mark: 00:05:09

So instead of being in a normal room, I get to just kind of lock

Mark: 00:05:13

myself inside the padded box.

Kat: 00:05:15

Any kitty going to make an appearance today?

Mark: 00:05:17

I hope so.

Mark: 00:05:18

I mean, I've left the door open for them to like kind of make their way up.

Mark: 00:05:21

Vesper was in here.

Mark: 00:05:23

She was exploring and inspecting, but, uh, uh, once I shut the

Mark: 00:05:28

door, she was like, nah, I, I don't want to be in here anymore.

Kat: 00:05:33

Because we're in our dining room table and our cats walk in front of us.

Kat: 00:05:37

And so we've had podcast recordings where the butt goes into the camera.

Kat: 00:05:40

We're like, you know what?

Kat: 00:05:41

That's fine.

Kat: 00:05:42

And by the way, Mark, we wore this shirt.

Kat: 00:05:45

We were reserving this shirt, by the way, for our interview with you.

Mark: 00:05:49

I love it.

Mark: 00:05:51

Uh, they look fantastic.

Mark: 00:05:52

Don't think I didn't, uh, wasn't clocking those immediately.

Kat: 00:05:55

We decided to wear, like, Batching Cat shirts in every

Kat: 00:05:57

interview, but This one was special.

Kat: 00:05:59

This was one of our New York ones that we haven't worn yet.

Kat: 00:06:02

So we wore it specially because, uh, we're interviewing you.

Mark: 00:06:05

This is good.

Mark: 00:06:06

You have one for every different interview then.

Kat: 00:06:10

Well,

Mark: 00:06:10

a little bit of an obsession.

Mark: 00:06:12

We're getting, we're

Kat: 00:06:13

getting there.

Mark: 00:06:15

How long has it been?

Mark: 00:06:16

Like,

Kat: 00:06:17

uh, well, since 2013.

Kat: 00:06:18

Like,

Mark: 00:06:20

oh my God, really?

Mark: 00:06:21

Since 2013.

Kat: 00:06:22

Yeah.

Kat: 00:06:23

That's the, that's the year that Aladdin closed.

Kat: 00:06:25

Right?

Kat: 00:06:25

See?

Kat: 00:06:25

Had

Mark: 00:06:25

met one of the,

Kat: 00:06:26

I think it took close in 2013, doesn't it?

Kat: 00:06:29

Didn't it?

Kat: 00:06:30

I think so.

Mark: 00:06:31

My god.

Mark: 00:06:32

Well, it's good to see you again, . I, it was so lovely to hear from You'all.

Mark: 00:06:37

Um, how's life been for the past decade?

Kat: 00:06:40

Well.

Kat: 00:06:40

It's been life, you know, we have, um, you know, three babies, three fur

Kat: 00:06:45

babies, um, and then, uh, who loves to just make their appearances, you know,

Kat: 00:06:49

but yeah, he's, uh, changed jobs a lot.

Kat: 00:06:53

Yeah, just like,

Lee: 00:06:54

uh, one was, uh, COVID, the other was just a school that, you know, Had

Lee: 00:06:59

kind of outlived its, its life and, uh, I progressed to someplace else,

Lee: 00:07:03

but I'm over at Pepperdine now in, um, Malibu at their business school.

Lee: 00:07:08

So it's pretty cool.

Lee: 00:07:09

Uh, but actually I've growing up, I was always into like arts and animation.

Lee: 00:07:13

So it was funny.

Lee: 00:07:14

The last, like 15 years I was at different film and art schools.

Lee: 00:07:18

So we may have some people that have crossed paths with each other.

Lee: 00:07:22

Um, like actually, do you know John Eric Bentley by any chance?

Lee: 00:07:27

Yes.

Lee: 00:07:28

Okay.

Lee: 00:07:29

He's, uh, Barrett, his Final Fantasy.

Mark: 00:07:31

Is he Barrett?

Mark: 00:07:32

I was gonna say, yeah.

Lee: 00:07:33

Yeah, and he's in a few other TV shows and animes and stuff, but we were

Lee: 00:07:38

in a theater company together for a while.

Lee: 00:07:40

And, um, it's just cool seeing him on there.

Lee: 00:07:42

And I see that you are Leslie in, uh, the Final Fantasy, which is awesome.

Mark: 00:07:46

Yes, yeah, that one, I was, I was super happy to be a part of that game.

Mark: 00:07:50

Obviously, big part of the childhood, but like, yeah, I was super stoked to be,

Mark: 00:07:56

Well, and still be, I guess, involved.

Mark: 00:07:58

I'm in the second one for a little bit, but yeah, I, John is, John's great.

Mark: 00:08:02

I haven't actually had a chance to meet him, but I am very aware,

Mark: 00:08:07

obviously, of what he does.

Mark: 00:08:09

Yeah, yeah,

Lee: 00:08:10

because that's the interesting part about what you, you get to do is

Lee: 00:08:13

like you're in all these, um, animes, games, TV shows, movies, commercials,

Lee: 00:08:20

uh, but like your interaction with people is kind of limited.

Lee: 00:08:24

Yeah.

Lee: 00:08:25

Right, like you're, I mean, basically living in this foam box, as you said.

Mark: 00:08:31

Box?

Mark: 00:08:33

And then this thing.

Mark: 00:08:34

Yeah, until I started doing conventions, even, I didn't really, uh, I didn't

Mark: 00:08:38

really meet a ton of folks that I worked with on a regular basis.

Mark: 00:08:42

Which is funny, everyone at Cons is like, Uh, how do you like working

Mark: 00:08:45

with The, this person or that person.

Mark: 00:08:47

I'm like, I don't know.

Mark: 00:08:49

I hear their voice occasionally when it's, uh, when they have them

Mark: 00:08:53

recorded before they have me recorded.

Mark: 00:08:56

Um, but yeah, it's, it's been, I mean, we can get into this more as we, as we talk,

Mark: 00:09:02

uh, as things are going on, but it's, it's been very, rewarding, but it's also

Mark: 00:09:07

been very isolating by nature of the work.

Mark: 00:09:11

It's a weird way to perform and I love it, but there are, it's downsides,

Mark: 00:09:15

obviously, like, like being at the stage at Aladdin and getting to like

Mark: 00:09:19

see people and be physically present with people has been, you know, missed.

Kat: 00:09:26

Yeah.

Mark: 00:09:27

Yeah.

Kat: 00:09:27

I looked at your site and I was listening to your demo reels and I was

Kat: 00:09:32

like, man, you got a lot of voices.

Kat: 00:09:35

It's really cool.

Kat: 00:09:36

It's like, it's, it's really amazing.

Kat: 00:09:38

What kind of, um, I guess, like growing up, you know, like, of course

Kat: 00:09:43

you probably, you know, you're into acting, you're training, what kind of

Kat: 00:09:47

like leadership values did you have to have, like, you know, As a child

Kat: 00:09:52

or going into your adulthood that kind of made you into this, uh, voice

Kat: 00:09:57

actor who's very successful and, you know, disciplined in your work and,

Kat: 00:10:01

and do what you got to do, even when it's so self isolating, as you said.

Mark: 00:10:06

That is a, that is a big question.

Mark: 00:10:07

That is covering, um, as far as, Leadership goes, I mean, especially when

Mark: 00:10:15

I was growing up, it, I don't know if I necessarily, I don't know, I think that

Mark: 00:10:22

there were other leaders in my life, uh, that, that helped me to get to where I am.

Mark: 00:10:28

And I think that especially, this may be a separate point to be talked

Mark: 00:10:33

about maybe a little bit, uh, in its own little box, but when you get

Mark: 00:10:37

to, you know, Be in this profession.

Mark: 00:10:39

What I've found out is that you do have to self lead a lot of the time because of

Mark: 00:10:45

how it is because of how isolated it is.

Mark: 00:10:47

Like when we're, when we're auditioning for theater, um, or even, you know, pre

Mark: 00:10:52

COVID, a lot of people were going in and doing film auditions and everything.

Mark: 00:10:56

It's very, uh, much more collaborative.

Mark: 00:10:58

You go in and you're, you're with people, scene partners, even, um, And you're

Mark: 00:11:05

getting directed, uh, generally, or you're getting watched in the moment

Mark: 00:11:10

by a human, um, but for voiceover, when I started transition into that,

Mark: 00:11:14

and I was doing it even when we were, um, working in Aladdin, uh, and, and

Mark: 00:11:19

Billy, uh, you remember Billy, he was getting into it too, and, um, it just,

Mark: 00:11:24

when you're doing that, uh, so much of it was like, Uh, tape yourself and send

Mark: 00:11:31

it off, tape yourself and send it off.

Mark: 00:11:33

And so that's where that being a leader, uh, kind of comes in.

Mark: 00:11:36

You have to self direct, you have to kind of, there's absolutely no feedback loop,

Mark: 00:11:43

uh, or a very limited feedback loop.

Mark: 00:11:46

And there already wasn't much of one anyways for things like, uh, film, TV,

Mark: 00:11:51

theater, um, You know, it's very much a don't call us, we'll call you if

Mark: 00:11:56

something happens thing, but even more so to the point, you don't even have

Mark: 00:12:00

someone being like, okay, that was great.

Mark: 00:12:02

Now try it like this.

Mark: 00:12:04

It's very much.

Mark: 00:12:05

You, you shoot your shot and, and then go on to the next one.

Mark: 00:12:11

Um, which has been a new challenge, uh, as it were, but as far as like growing

Mark: 00:12:17

up and getting into things, which was the original point, I think that what primed

Mark: 00:12:24

me or, or positioned me well for this was having good leaders and good coaches and.

Mark: 00:12:30

Paying attention to them.

Mark: 00:12:31

I think I had, I think I got lucky.

Mark: 00:12:34

I had a lot of folks in, in my life.

Mark: 00:12:36

I did, uh, productions, uh, when I was quite young and I looked up to a lot of

Mark: 00:12:42

the people in these community theaters, regional theaters, uh, that I was lucky

Mark: 00:12:47

enough to work with as mentors and being young, there were a lot of them.

Mark: 00:12:52

Maybe not all.

Mark: 00:12:53

Actually, I wasn't quite aware of the mentor relationship.

Mark: 00:12:56

So I don't know.

Mark: 00:12:57

Maybe they were like, who's this kid?

Mark: 00:12:58

Get out.

Mark: 00:12:59

Um, but I was around long enough to like soak a lot of what they were doing in.

Mark: 00:13:04

In fact, that's what my, my mom prompted me to do very astutely.

Mark: 00:13:09

She was like, just go there and be like a sponge and just collect everything.

Mark: 00:13:15

And I think that's, that's been very important.

Mark: 00:13:18

It's, it's not, Not just to have a single mentor, but to really be paying attention

Mark: 00:13:24

to everything that's going on around you.

Mark: 00:13:26

And luckily I, I loved that.

Mark: 00:13:29

I already loved the environment I was in.

Mark: 00:13:31

So paying more attention to it was easy.

Mark: 00:13:35

I already felt comfortable in that space.

Mark: 00:13:37

And then the more I paid attention to what people were doing, even unprompted,

Mark: 00:13:42

it wasn't like someone necessarily had to come up to me and say, Hey

Mark: 00:13:45

kid, you should try it like this.

Mark: 00:13:46

I'm watching people.

Mark: 00:13:48

And also trying it like they're doing, uh, as well of my own accord.

Mark: 00:13:53

Um, and I think that spark is kind of within us.

Mark: 00:13:57

Uh, and I think that maybe an important thing is that you don't.

Mark: 00:14:01

You don't necessarily need permission to do it.

Mark: 00:14:03

I guess maybe some of my mom's prompting was my permission.

Mark: 00:14:07

Um, and certainly when people do teach you in that context, whether it be in a

Mark: 00:14:12

formal classroom or a note in a production that you're in, um, Then you have

Mark: 00:14:19

that permission to go ahead and do it.

Mark: 00:14:21

But then giving yourself permission to always be playing and always be exploring.

Mark: 00:14:27

That was important, I think.

Mark: 00:14:28

I believe it's important.

Mark: 00:14:31

It's weird.

Mark: 00:14:31

A lot of this, I guess, well, when you interview anyone,

Mark: 00:14:34

it's all through our lens.

Mark: 00:14:36

So, uh, I'll try to be as honest as I can in expressing how, how I view things.

Mark: 00:14:41

Yeah.

Kat: 00:14:41

I love it though.

Kat: 00:14:42

So you're saying like the value of play exploration, the value of mentorship,

Kat: 00:14:46

having like good mentors around you, especially as a child, you know, and

Kat: 00:14:51

in your teens and adulthood, even as an adult, I think we all need mentors,

Kat: 00:14:54

you know, as adults and, and coaches and whatever it is that we want to.

Kat: 00:14:58

Excella and just in life in general, like what I'm hearing is the leadership

Kat: 00:15:02

skill is really self accountability because I always tell like my piano

Kat: 00:15:06

students, you know, that learning a musical instrument is so unique in a

Kat: 00:15:10

sense that if you're in a drama club, or if you're in dance, or if you are in

Kat: 00:15:15

sports, right, you go and be with people to play sports, you go to to be in a

Kat: 00:15:20

studio to dance, you go to, you know, with your scene partner to do acting, right?

Kat: 00:15:26

But with a musical instrument, even if you play in a band, um,

Kat: 00:15:29

for you to get good first, right?

Kat: 00:15:32

You actually have to learn the skill yourself and by yourself, and there's

Kat: 00:15:36

no one else who's gonna basically tell you, Hey, I'm going to sit with you while

Kat: 00:15:40

you practice piano and just be with you.

Kat: 00:15:42

And there's nothing like that.

Kat: 00:15:44

Like you usually, as a child, you sit down and you just have to, you know,

Kat: 00:15:48

think of like a six, seven year old and you're like, Oh, I have to practice now.

Kat: 00:15:51

And I got to do this alone myself.

Kat: 00:15:52

You know, it's like that self accountability and actually

Kat: 00:15:55

learning how to lead yourself.

Kat: 00:15:57

Um, do you remember any instances as a child where you like, Had to learn

Kat: 00:16:02

that like the self accountability part or any stories about that.

Mark: 00:16:06

I remember when I failed at it We

Kat: 00:16:09

like we like that because we learn from failures

Mark: 00:16:12

in the context of what when you're you're mentioning like especially,

Mark: 00:16:16

um musicianship and uh and bands and and I think your point on self

Mark: 00:16:21

accountability is And you're right.

Mark: 00:16:23

With something like a band, that, that makes me think of like, you

Mark: 00:16:28

have the, all these people playing these instruments, but when you get

Mark: 00:16:30

together for band practice, you're not necessarily teaching any individual

Mark: 00:16:33

how to play their instrument.

Mark: 00:16:35

You are creating the sound of the band with all of those people

Mark: 00:16:39

who theoretically have all been.

Mark: 00:16:42

Doing that work of their own accord.

Mark: 00:16:45

My brothers are wonderful pianists.

Mark: 00:16:48

Uh, one of my, um, one in particular, he he's been still doing it,

Mark: 00:16:54

uh, throughout his whole life.

Mark: 00:16:55

He composes, he works on improvisation, jazz.

Mark: 00:16:59

One of those things was that I had to sit down and practice.

Mark: 00:17:02

So it kind of fell on me as the third child to be like,

Mark: 00:17:05

Oh, you'll also learn piano.

Mark: 00:17:07

We got this piano.

Mark: 00:17:08

Everyone's learned in it.

Mark: 00:17:10

I did not take to it.

Mark: 00:17:13

Like, I just did for whatever reason, I would sit there and I, I

Mark: 00:17:19

love music and I loved, uh, I even probably liked playing piano, but I

Mark: 00:17:25

did not love it to the point where I.

Mark: 00:17:28

Was self accountable and I was drawn in other directions and it

Mark: 00:17:33

was like, it was like pulling teeth to try and get me to do a thing.

Mark: 00:17:38

And I think that at that point in time you arrive at a couple of situations.

Mark: 00:17:42

Is there someone there in your life who is, you know, pushing you

Mark: 00:17:48

forward and dodgy ground, right?

Mark: 00:17:52

Like push the kid, push the mark too hard when he doesn't want to learn piano.

Mark: 00:17:56

Um, and maybe other things will pop up.

Mark: 00:17:59

But Push Mark really hard because he's resisting and maybe he breaks

Mark: 00:18:04

through something where he's like, Oh, well, now it's easy.

Mark: 00:18:08

And I feel that I mean, it could be in my own head, that feedback loop

Mark: 00:18:12

where I'm like, I'm trash at piano.

Mark: 00:18:14

So I don't want to practice, um, instead of finding out like,

Mark: 00:18:19

no, you're not terrible at it.

Mark: 00:18:21

This just requires attention one way or another.

Mark: 00:18:25

That realization did not land upon my brain.

Mark: 00:18:28

Um, and, and I was so resistant that I think my parents were

Mark: 00:18:33

just like, You know what?

Mark: 00:18:36

We've pushed you as much as we want, as we feel is right as parents.

Mark: 00:18:41

You know, we've sent you to classes.

Mark: 00:18:44

And I think that probably a lot of parents and families find this with their

Mark: 00:18:49

kids that they try a bunch of things you try so many different things to

Mark: 00:18:54

see what grabs your child's attention.

Mark: 00:18:57

And as a child, hopefully, if we're lucky enough, we are.

Mark: 00:19:01

Able to try so many things as well to find what grabs our internal attention.

Mark: 00:19:07

It's not to say that things don't require work.

Mark: 00:19:09

It's just to say that perhaps, uh, when work and motivation to work meet each

Mark: 00:19:16

other, there is like there you found your sweet spot and and my sweet spot was.

Mark: 00:19:23

Categorically not piano.

Mark: 00:19:25

Um, so despite it being a musical art, despite it being a creative

Mark: 00:19:30

thing now, like I'd sure roll up occasionally I've like bounced

Mark: 00:19:35

back into it because I like music.

Mark: 00:19:37

And so I played the final fantasy theme in college.

Mark: 00:19:41

I learned how to like, you know, clunkily play that out because I found it soothing.

Mark: 00:19:47

Um, but again, it never really took hold to the point where I am a pianist myself.

Mark: 00:19:54

And I think I've perhaps diverted from your point of self accountability.

Kat: 00:19:59

Oh, it's okay.

Kat: 00:20:00

It's all good.

Kat: 00:20:01

No, but it

Lee: 00:20:01

does bring up another point I wanted to ask about, because with, um, the

Lee: 00:20:05

industry that you're in, and just the, the nature of that, that business, and

Lee: 00:20:11

being with voice acting, as you said, like you're recording yourself and sending

Lee: 00:20:15

it off, recording yourself and sending it off, and I don't know how many you do

Lee: 00:20:19

a week, but I imagine, say, out of 10, maybe you get a response on 1, to 2, to 3.

Lee: 00:20:26

As you grow, maybe that turns into 5?

Lee: 00:20:29

Half?

Lee: 00:20:29

50%?

Lee: 00:20:30

Probably not?

Lee: 00:20:31

Okay.

Lee: 00:20:32

Not for me.

Lee: 00:20:33

Yeah, no, no, no, no.

Lee: 00:20:34

And it's, I imagine, yeah, it's, it's very low, like, response numbers.

Lee: 00:20:38

But with, um, with that kind of, non response.

Lee: 00:20:43

What is the mindset that you've developed going into these professional auditions

Lee: 00:20:48

where you're, I don't, you can share how many you think you do a week, but, um,

Lee: 00:20:54

you, you have to have this, this grit.

Lee: 00:20:56

I imagine you have to have a, not like a caring, but then also a not

Lee: 00:21:02

caring on the response side of things.

Lee: 00:21:05

So it's, talk about your, your kind of mental state, your, your thoughts

Lee: 00:21:09

as you go through some of this

Mark: 00:21:10

audition process.

Mark: 00:21:12

Sure.

Mark: 00:21:12

Yeah.

Mark: 00:21:12

I mean, I think that's one of the toughest parts of the job and one that,

Mark: 00:21:15

um, one that I've gone through many different stages with, if I, if I kind

Mark: 00:21:20

of look back over the past 20, 20 years that I've been doing, trying to do this

Mark: 00:21:25

professionally through theater, uh, what have you, it's difficult and it's

Mark: 00:21:30

taken on many forms and you're right.

Mark: 00:21:32

You do kind of have to have a thick skin and not think about it, uh, to, to

Mark: 00:21:35

answer your question about how many I do a week, it can vary on during slow times.

Mark: 00:21:41

It might be like.

Mark: 00:21:42

Uh, two or three to like half a dozen for me personally.

Mark: 00:21:46

And sometimes you got like a few dozen, uh, auditions a week.

Mark: 00:21:51

So you're, you're, you know, you can have like 20, 30 roles

Mark: 00:21:54

that you're auditioning for.

Mark: 00:21:55

Um, as far as response rates to be perfectly candid, uh, I haven't looked

Mark: 00:22:00

because it's probably very depressing.

Mark: 00:22:03

I know that I have a folder full of thousands of auditions as, as

Mark: 00:22:07

potentially all of my cohorts do as well.

Mark: 00:22:10

And, uh, I'd be, I'd be surprised if it was even 3 percent of responses

Mark: 00:22:16

and I think that, uh, you know, for folks that are more prolific, maybe

Mark: 00:22:19

they have a different, uh, numbers.

Mark: 00:22:22

And that's another one of those things that kind of dovetails into

Mark: 00:22:26

this whole like thick skin thing.

Mark: 00:22:27

You, you cannot think of it like that.

Mark: 00:22:31

I say that adamantly, but I assure you that I think of it all the time.

Mark: 00:22:34

Yeah,

Kat: 00:22:38

we say we say right that we try not to care, but like

Kat: 00:22:41

we really, we really do care.

Kat: 00:22:43

It really does get to us.

Mark: 00:22:44

We know we're not supposed to, but you can't keep your

Mark: 00:22:47

hand out of that cookie jar.

Mark: 00:22:49

So, in a way that that can be frustrating on many levels.

Mark: 00:22:53

I've done for a while.

Mark: 00:22:56

It was like, Oh, I was not as fortunate to have so many auditions I would have, uh,

Mark: 00:23:03

in different situations when, uh, before I had an agent, I was scaring up my own

Mark: 00:23:07

opportunities, which were much slimmer with different agencies and with different

Mark: 00:23:12

amounts of credits on your resume, you may get different opportunities

Mark: 00:23:17

and or less opportunities initially.

Mark: 00:23:20

And so it does build, there is a bit of that build in there, but.

Mark: 00:23:25

At no point for me, at least, has it become like, okay, now we're sailing easy.

Mark: 00:23:31

I can forget about all that.

Mark: 00:23:33

I know I have a consistent, like, return rate.

Mark: 00:23:37

It's just like, nah, any of any consistency within the business

Mark: 00:23:42

comes from the relationships that you make and and how those.

Mark: 00:23:47

Come back around to you, uh, a relationship that you make or your

Mark: 00:23:52

reputation may result in more people reaching out and the more of that

Mark: 00:23:57

you have, inevitably, the more of it gets reflected back again.

Mark: 00:24:01

That's not even a guarantee.

Mark: 00:24:03

Um, but as far as like the mental state in dealing with it is, there are a

Mark: 00:24:07

couple of things that I've had to do.

Mark: 00:24:10

I had a really hard time when I was starting out in, uh, in theater

Mark: 00:24:14

auditions, I would let them get to me.

Mark: 00:24:16

I would fall in love with the thing and I'm prepping.

Mark: 00:24:20

Cause I'll be prepping for like a week or something, working on songs,

Mark: 00:24:24

working on scenes, and you really get into this hopeful mindset.

Mark: 00:24:29

Which I think is good, but at the same time, I've had feedback come to me where

Mark: 00:24:34

it's like, oh, you want it too much.

Mark: 00:24:38

Uh, you're too excited for this.

Mark: 00:24:40

And that's probably me getting, well, in a way, it sounds harsh, but in a way, it's

Mark: 00:24:46

probably my nervousness overtaking myself.

Mark: 00:24:50

And instead of performing honestly, I desperately need the job or

Mark: 00:24:55

validation that part takes over.

Mark: 00:24:58

And so as, as frustrating as it was to recognize that, you

Mark: 00:25:04

know, cause I went through, well, well, how can I not want it?

Mark: 00:25:07

And then still do a good job and it's there's a balance there

Mark: 00:25:12

that is inherently frustrating.

Mark: 00:25:14

It's like you can't, you don't want to attach yourself so much to it.

Mark: 00:25:18

So in a way, making it a job that you're able to move on from and little tricks.

Mark: 00:25:24

I heard something that may have I don't know if this is a true story or

Mark: 00:25:28

not, but like Nick Offerman apparently after auditions goes and like, he

Mark: 00:25:33

has, he does a lot of woodworking and after an audition, he'll go and

Mark: 00:25:37

do his hobby and forget about it.

Mark: 00:25:40

Um, forgetting about what you just did.

Mark: 00:25:43

Is so important and mostly I think that's to say is that it's, it's not

Mark: 00:25:49

that you don't pay attention and prepare you do, but then you, you go, you do

Mark: 00:25:54

your performance and then the show has closed and maybe you'll get asked back.

Mark: 00:26:00

But I mean, especially thinking of auditions as like little performances.

Mark: 00:26:04

I prepare, I go in, I do my performance.

Mark: 00:26:08

The curtain drops.

Mark: 00:26:09

That's it.

Mark: 00:26:11

And and everything else is out of your hands.

Kat: 00:26:13

Yeah, I think Mark, like, it's basically kind of what you're saying,

Kat: 00:26:17

if I can maybe, you know, like, think about it this way, is it's really, it's

Kat: 00:26:23

putting excellence in your work, right?

Kat: 00:26:25

It's not like we can't be perfect, because we don't know what that really means.

Kat: 00:26:29

But like, really just being as excellent as we can be to show up

Kat: 00:26:32

prepared to show up strong, but to completely be detached from the result.

Kat: 00:26:37

Right.

Kat: 00:26:37

Not to attach our value, basically, in who we are as human beings to the

Kat: 00:26:41

result, which I know is very hard to do.

Kat: 00:26:43

Um, but that's, I feel, I feel like that's what it really boils down to, right?

Kat: 00:26:47

Like, it's like, it's, we do our best, but the result is out of our, our hands.

Kat: 00:26:51

We've, we've done what we could do, and hopefully they'll meet us in the

Kat: 00:26:54

middle and the opportunity will come.

Kat: 00:26:57

But if it doesn't, it says nothing.

Kat: 00:27:00

About who we are as people and our value and our talents, right?

Kat: 00:27:05

So in that sense, I guess, so how do you try to get yourself in that mindset?

Kat: 00:27:09

Maybe you have a practice or or any anything that you try to put into so

Kat: 00:27:13

that you can be, Oh, you know, I've done my best and we just let it go.

Mark: 00:27:18

I mean, uh, time has helped, uh, over just, just over time.

Mark: 00:27:24

Like time is great.

Mark: 00:27:25

And, and the older, uh, the older I get, the more experienced I get, the easier it.

Mark: 00:27:29

It has become so, but that's not really a practice getting

Kat: 00:27:33

older is good, huh?

Kat: 00:27:34

Yeah.

Mark: 00:27:37

Well, it can be, it, it, it, it gains you a certain amount of perspective.

Mark: 00:27:42

You start to, we think we're so very in control.

Mark: 00:27:47

And in a way we've been taught that we are very much in control of.

Mark: 00:27:52

All of these moments in our life and, uh, meditating on the idea

Mark: 00:27:57

that there are many things, there's so many things that we cannot and

Mark: 00:28:01

getting rid, allowing that to go yoga.

Mark: 00:28:04

I love physical exercise, uh, personally, I think it's something

Mark: 00:28:09

that, that is, it is in the, in the realm of what I can control.

Mark: 00:28:15

I can very much control.

Mark: 00:28:18

Whether I go to the gym, whether I run, whether I breathe, how I'm

Mark: 00:28:23

stretching, I can, I can control that.

Mark: 00:28:25

And that is all a very personal journey.

Mark: 00:28:28

I can, and I feel like it's also To me, because I, uh, everything that I do

Mark: 00:28:35

for the longest time, I always wanted it to also apply to being an actor.

Mark: 00:28:40

So it's like, I'm going to learn how to ride a horse because that'll

Mark: 00:28:43

be a good skill I'll use one day.

Mark: 00:28:45

Um, but.

Mark: 00:28:47

Truly like taking care of yourself, taking care of your body, I think

Mark: 00:28:51

is very important for everybody.

Mark: 00:28:53

I think it, it reveals an amount of dedication, uh, alongside with your

Mark: 00:29:00

own work ethic, an amount of respect for, for us as actors, it sounds

Mark: 00:29:07

lame, but your instrument, which is literally what we're using, but

Mark: 00:29:11

also, um, keeping myself healthy.

Mark: 00:29:15

In my mind, in my body helps me to be a better person in the world

Mark: 00:29:22

around other people, and it's not, it's not necessarily a vanity thing.

Mark: 00:29:27

Uh, it's, it's nice to feel like you can be capable and go places and look

Mark: 00:29:33

as good as you can, but ultimately like it is that, uh, what helps me is that I

Mark: 00:29:39

get to like, center into myself a little bit and detach myself from all of these

Mark: 00:29:44

externals that I have no control over.

Mark: 00:29:47

Um, and so in that way, like exercise practice has been great.

Mark: 00:29:51

I love go and do a workout because I totally it is it is not My audition

Mark: 00:29:58

whatsoever, and I really kind of get to focus in, get to that meditative state.

Mark: 00:30:03

So, I mean, however one meditates, I think that it is an important thing to do.

Mark: 00:30:10

Um, to go back to, to Billy, he told me for the longest time, he was

Mark: 00:30:15

getting up in the mornings and just like he would take time for himself,

Mark: 00:30:19

like a half hour, and he'd go out on his porch and he would read.

Mark: 00:30:24

He'd go out outside and he'd read, um, something that he enjoyed.

Mark: 00:30:27

A lot of times, you know, it could be anything from like self help

Mark: 00:30:30

books to maybe a fiction that he enjoyed, things like that.

Mark: 00:30:33

It's, um, but having that sort of meditative routine can

Mark: 00:30:38

perhaps help you to meet the day.

Mark: 00:30:41

And meet the challenges of it and knowing that you can return to that

Mark: 00:30:45

as like a little bit of a touch point.

Mark: 00:30:47

Um, so that's one thing, the people in our lives, I think are important,

Mark: 00:30:52

you know, having, having anyone you can disconnect from these things.

Mark: 00:30:57

What my problem is and sometimes, sometimes this gets

Mark: 00:31:02

in the way, especially since.

Mark: 00:31:04

Our business as actors is very much one that we find in moments

Mark: 00:31:11

where other people relax.

Mark: 00:31:13

People are like, Oh, I go home and I watch a show because

Mark: 00:31:15

that washes everything away.

Mark: 00:31:18

Um, and it can be frustrating when you're like, yeah, I can go home and watch a

Mark: 00:31:22

show and be like, Oh, those actors, all those actors doing what I want to do.

Mark: 00:31:31

And like, well, how are they doing it?

Mark: 00:31:33

Who's casting this?

Mark: 00:31:34

You know, you get.

Mark: 00:31:36

It's like, that is, that is not helping if you can meaningfully detach.

Mark: 00:31:41

So, I, I play, I love video games, obviously, and I play a lot of games.

Mark: 00:31:45

One game that I am playing right now is just, there is no voice acting in it.

Kat: 00:31:51

So, so you're not, like, listening to What are

Mark: 00:31:52

you, what are you gaming on right now?

Mark: 00:31:54

I'm playing Cult of the Lamb, and it has been, uh, very, very revealing

Mark: 00:31:59

to a lot of, like, it's been very cathartic and revealing to my psyche.

Mark: 00:32:03

Um, but I love games like that, like Hollow Knight, uh, Hyper Light Drifter.

Mark: 00:32:08

I love good, you know, indie games that have, like, fantastic music, Civilization.

Mark: 00:32:13

Granted, it still has Sean Bean in it, um, and, you know, we're getting

Mark: 00:32:18

another installment coming up here.

Mark: 00:32:20

But, like, that I can at least I listen to the bits and bobs, soak it in.

Mark: 00:32:27

It's comforting.

Mark: 00:32:28

There are some games I'm able to fully detach myself.

Kat: 00:32:32

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Lee: 00:34:29

One thing I want to jump in with real quick is I'm going to nerd out

Lee: 00:34:32

with you for a half a minute here.

Lee: 00:34:33

And Kat's going to roll her eyes and maybe like start off in the space for a minute.

Lee: 00:34:36

But, um, you mentioned final fantasy seven.

Lee: 00:34:39

And like, for me, I came off of a year, my junior year of high school.

Lee: 00:34:43

Um, it started with my grandma that died.

Lee: 00:34:45

And then, All the way into my senior year, my, uh, a good friend of mine, uh,

Lee: 00:34:50

ended his life, um, over Christmas break.

Lee: 00:34:55

And then, um, I graduated in 97, same year Final Fantasy came out.

Lee: 00:35:00

So all the themes in Final Fantasy about loss and love and

Lee: 00:35:03

everything else, that game hit.

Lee: 00:35:05

I don't even know why I'm feeling emotional all of a sudden.

Lee: 00:35:08

But

Mark: 00:35:08

like, that game.

Mark: 00:35:10

I know why you're feeling emotional all of a sudden.

Mark: 00:35:13

Because this stuff like hits.

Lee: 00:35:15

Yeah, and like that game, I've played through probably the original

Lee: 00:35:20

one probably about seven or eight times.

Lee: 00:35:22

And then, um, obviously there's the remake that came out.

Lee: 00:35:25

Um, having like personal connections with the game.

Lee: 00:35:29

I, I didn't, we didn't know each other that well at that stage.

Lee: 00:35:32

Um, and um, But, like, knowing John was in it, uh, just put a whole new,

Lee: 00:35:38

like, layer on top of that game.

Lee: 00:35:41

And, like, the whole time that you're talking right now, I'm thinking

Lee: 00:35:42

of, like, uh, Leslie in the game.

Lee: 00:35:46

And all the, the whole Don Corneo scene and all that.

Lee: 00:35:49

Um,

Mark: 00:35:51

so, thank you for your work.

Mark: 00:35:52

Yeah, and his, his story, too, is like, I mean, I know it's, it's

Mark: 00:35:57

not included in the original.

Mark: 00:35:58

It's, it's more from the fan, from the fictions that were, uh, put out.

Mark: 00:36:02

But, and then Injected into the game, but man, I, I love his story.

Mark: 00:36:08

I, I think that that's it again, what final fantasy does is they, they do a

Mark: 00:36:13

good job of diving into these emotional moments, even if it's for just a little

Mark: 00:36:17

bit of a side story, his search for his fiancee, uh, and that sort of loss.

Mark: 00:36:22

And I mean, if you're really sorted, they don't get super dark with it, but I

Mark: 00:36:27

can't imagine it's a good situation, uh, over there with Don Corneo, uh, I mean,

Mark: 00:36:34

there's some, some heavy stuff in there.

Lee: 00:36:36

Thank you for like doing your part in the role because the, the

Lee: 00:36:40

stories and the feelings, the emotions, everything that you're bringing, you

Lee: 00:36:44

know, to the audience, um, has such a deep impact, like honor psyche, like

Lee: 00:36:49

you said, just making us feel better.

Lee: 00:36:51

You're like helping in my disconnect from like the stresses of the day

Lee: 00:36:55

or with things that I'm working on.

Lee: 00:36:57

And, um, I wanted to, I'll just kind of circling around, um, with the video

Lee: 00:37:02

game world or with auditions in general that you've done, I was wondering

Lee: 00:37:07

about like the highs and the lows.

Lee: 00:37:09

So, like, do you remember an audition that you were just kind of destroyed

Lee: 00:37:14

after and then another audition where you booked it and it was, I don't know, the

Lee: 00:37:20

best thing since sliced bread for you.

Lee: 00:37:22

Oh gosh, um,

Mark: 00:37:26

There's, There are, uh, Some of the auditions that, I don't know if

Mark: 00:37:32

I've necessarily been fully destroyed.

Mark: 00:37:36

Although, you know, back to a lot of the theater auditions uh, that I did, I, I

Mark: 00:37:42

was I was pretty down about Avenue Q.

Mark: 00:37:46

Uh, I got pretty close, uh, on, on Avenue Q, the tour and or Broadway production.

Mark: 00:37:51

I was in puppet school, uh, right before I was meant to go

Mark: 00:37:55

in for the final, final callback.

Mark: 00:37:58

Uh, I got very, very sick.

Mark: 00:38:00

I lost my voice completely for like a week.

Mark: 00:38:03

And, um, I missed that opportunity obviously did not get cast.

Mark: 00:38:09

Um, I couldn't listen to Avenue Q for.

Mark: 00:38:13

Years.

Mark: 00:38:14

I was just like, I can't, I, I, and that's the thing.

Mark: 00:38:18

I was young.

Mark: 00:38:19

I was so very attached to it.

Mark: 00:38:22

So many of those songs, uh, started meaning so much to me and, and I had this,

Mark: 00:38:29

this belief that you have when you're, when you're young and in love, um, and,

Mark: 00:38:35

and maybe even when you're older and in love too, because there are plenty

Mark: 00:38:38

of things that I auditioned for now.

Mark: 00:38:40

So I just.

Mark: 00:38:41

It's so rapid fire in VO that I don't have time to fall in love

Mark: 00:38:45

like I used to all the time.

Mark: 00:38:47

Um, but uh, but with the slower pace of theater, like

Mark: 00:38:53

I listened to that soundtrack.

Mark: 00:38:55

I, I drank that show in and I dedicated a lot of time to it.

Mark: 00:39:01

And, um, And yeah, that one really was, was pretty painful and I, I

Mark: 00:39:08

couldn't, I couldn't, I didn't want to like interface with it anymore.

Mark: 00:39:11

And that sucks.

Mark: 00:39:13

It's probably not the best way to deal with that.

Mark: 00:39:16

And I acknowledge it.

Lee: 00:39:18

What

Mark: 00:39:18

did you learn

Lee: 00:39:19

as you go through, you know, and what were some of the learning

Lee: 00:39:22

lessons from that experience?

Lee: 00:39:25

What did

Mark: 00:39:26

I learn, Mark?

Mark: 00:39:27

Did I learn anything from it?

Mark: 00:39:28

Um, I mean, I did learn that in a way, for me, for better or worse,

Mark: 00:39:33

disconnection and distance does help.

Mark: 00:39:37

Um, because otherwise I just carry around bitterness.

Mark: 00:39:42

Uh, with me, and, and in, in lieu of bitterness, I was like,

Mark: 00:39:46

Disconnection seems better than active me being a, a grump.

Mark: 00:39:52

Um, because then I'm bringing that weird energy to everyone

Mark: 00:39:57

else who also enjoys it.

Mark: 00:39:59

And the reason I'm bitter is because I enjoy it so much.

Mark: 00:40:04

Too much.

Mark: 00:40:05

And so stepping back and allowing other people around me to have to

Mark: 00:40:11

not bring my negativity along with me was helpful until a point where

Mark: 00:40:16

I could personally process it.

Mark: 00:40:18

And I could still see people calling me out for that, but whatever, it's, it's,

Mark: 00:40:22

it's our own like healing journeys.

Mark: 00:40:25

And I'd like to think that at least I had the presence of mind to.

Mark: 00:40:29

to uh, not put my healing journey on everybody else.

Mark: 00:40:33

But the flip side of this story is that eventually I did get into Avenue

Mark: 00:40:38

Q out here in Los Angeles and it was an amazing experience and I met so many

Mark: 00:40:45

fun people and there was, it, it came back at this Time when it was just right

Mark: 00:40:52

and I I had been puppeteering for a while at that point and this audition

Mark: 00:40:57

came back And it wasn't broadway.

Mark: 00:40:59

It wasn't a tour.

Mark: 00:41:00

It was a 99 seat theater out here um But I fell in love with the show

Mark: 00:41:06

again And, and I was ready to come back and step back into things.

Mark: 00:41:11

I had like, whatever my, whatever my insecurity or my childishness

Mark: 00:41:18

about it was, I had dealt with it.

Mark: 00:41:20

I had let it go.

Mark: 00:41:22

And I was like, I'm ready to audition for this again.

Mark: 00:41:25

And man, man, do I love it.

Mark: 00:41:27

Like I always have.

Mark: 00:41:29

And, and I was lucky enough to get into it.

Kat: 00:41:31

I'm getting chills just listening to this story.

Kat: 00:41:34

Like, seriously, it's so good.

Kat: 00:41:35

Okay, keep going.

Kat: 00:41:36

It's so good.

Mark: 00:41:38

I didn't even book the part that I thought I was.

Mark: 00:41:40

I thought I was a Princeton Rod for sure.

Mark: 00:41:42

In fact, that's what I auditioned for.

Mark: 00:41:45

And the part that I booked was Nikki Trekkie, which I never saw myself as.

Mark: 00:41:50

But when I stepped into that part during the show, I was like, Oh, oh god, I should

Mark: 00:41:57

have been auditioning for this all along.

Mark: 00:42:00

I was not right for the other part.

Mark: 00:42:02

I, I just am not that guy.

Mark: 00:42:04

I come across as it, I probably look like it, but I was so much

Mark: 00:42:09

more suited to that other part.

Mark: 00:42:12

And that moment, and it turned out being wonderful.

Mark: 00:42:16

I met fantastic friends, uh, that I still keep in touch with.

Mark: 00:42:21

And, um, and, and here's another like random story of divine providence.

Mark: 00:42:27

I ended up getting onto a TV show through that show.

Mark: 00:42:32

Uh, Jeff Marks, uh, really loved our production and and

Mark: 00:42:36

Richard Israel was our director.

Mark: 00:42:38

He's fantastic, uh, through through those connections and those people,

Mark: 00:42:43

uh, the show Big Little Lies needed a production of Avenue Q and and they

Mark: 00:42:49

came back to us and they're like, Hey, do you want to be on this TV show?

Mark: 00:42:52

Uh, as as Nikki and Trekkie and and I was like, Sure.

Mark: 00:42:57

I mean, it's like, it's like a, it's a glorious background part, but I

Mark: 00:43:02

was like, I never thought, I never thought it would take me to this place.

Mark: 00:43:05

So you just.

Mark: 00:43:06

I don't know.

Mark: 00:43:07

The whole Avenue Q journey, I never knew it was that important to me, I guess.

Mark: 00:43:13

But it turned out to be something very important and all at once surprising, you

Mark: 00:43:18

know, in ways I never could have known.

Kat: 00:43:21

It's like a full circle moment that you never really, um, expected.

Kat: 00:43:26

But it's just such a beautiful illustration of like, you know, when we

Kat: 00:43:30

lose something, sometimes it's because And it hurts us so badly or deeply, right?

Kat: 00:43:36

It's because we really think that, Oh, this should be our time.

Kat: 00:43:39

It is our time.

Kat: 00:43:40

We should have gotten this one.

Kat: 00:43:41

It's our time.

Kat: 00:43:42

And then we lose it.

Kat: 00:43:43

And then we didn't realize that, Oh, it's going to, it's going to come back.

Kat: 00:43:47

Like it, it will, you just don't know.

Lee: 00:43:49

I don't know why I have the illustration of like a seed, like

Lee: 00:43:52

when it's something painful or something that we feel like we

Lee: 00:43:54

lost, like we're letting it go.

Lee: 00:43:55

We're putting it in the ground, just letting it go.

Lee: 00:43:57

But then like we could return later and it's got fruit, shade,

Lee: 00:44:00

comfort, you know, beauty.

Lee: 00:44:02

To it years later, you know, or maybe it's just, it's gone, but you let

Lee: 00:44:07

it go and you grow and you just kind of, you have to kind of truck on.

Lee: 00:44:11

But yeah, that's a, that's an awesome story, Mark, about kind of

Lee: 00:44:14

loss and reliving and recapture of,

Mark: 00:44:16

of victories and that.

Kat: 00:44:18

I love it.

Mark: 00:44:19

Truly only something that can be traced back to its origin from

Mark: 00:44:22

the perspective that I'm at now.

Mark: 00:44:24

I'm like, Oh, I knew all along that this was heading in that direction.

Mark: 00:44:28

It's like.

Mark: 00:44:28

I didn't know you're right.

Mark: 00:44:30

It's it's very much that seed.

Mark: 00:44:32

If you buy a packet of them and it's just mixed seeds, you don't know what they are.

Mark: 00:44:37

But if you are planting them and planting each one, things do happen over time.

Mark: 00:44:42

Things do come back around in ways that are totally unexpected.

Mark: 00:44:46

And that's That's another thing that I've come to appreciate a lot as, uh, my

Mark: 00:44:52

career has progressed is that I, I don't know where connections are going to go.

Mark: 00:44:56

I think that's such an important thing is that I did not know that we were going to

Mark: 00:45:00

be doing this podcast together and I, I don't know what we're going to be doing

Mark: 00:45:05

10 years from now, but it's, it's nice to, to, you know, you, you come in and

Mark: 00:45:10

out of people's orbit in strange ways.

Mark: 00:45:12

And, um, and there's something fascinating and unknowable about that.

Mark: 00:45:19

And if you can give over to it, and I think that's where you find the ease that

Mark: 00:45:25

takes your desperation away from a moment of I have to have this thing if you can

Mark: 00:45:32

give into a larger view of time and how time flows, you can maybe Just loosen your

Mark: 00:45:42

grip a little bit on your desire to have that exact thing at that exact moment.

Mark: 00:45:47

I didn't need to get into Avenue Q at that exact moment.

Mark: 00:45:51

Would it have been cool?

Mark: 00:45:52

Sure.

Mark: 00:45:53

But was that the end of the story?

Mark: 00:45:55

Clearly it wasn't.

Mark: 00:45:57

Mm hmm.

Lee: 00:45:58

Oh.

Lee: 00:45:59

Because then that, you know, you think about it too.

Lee: 00:46:00

It's like if, say you had gotten it, it's just a different trajectory.

Lee: 00:46:04

And like this, this audition that you did in Uh, Los Angeles and

Lee: 00:46:08

booked, like you probably would maybe, I've already done that.

Kat: 00:46:11

Yeah.

Lee: 00:46:12

Let me know something else.

Mark: 00:46:13

Might not have even been in Los Angeles.

Mark: 00:46:15

100%.

Mark: 00:46:16

Yeah.

Mark: 00:46:16

If I had done that, there's entirely a whole different, like, bizarro fork,

Mark: 00:46:21

uh, Marvel, what if, if that I end up in New York for the rest of my life, right?

Mark: 00:46:26

I mean, like, and then I miss out on.

Mark: 00:46:29

Friends that I met in Florida, friends that I met down at

Mark: 00:46:34

Disneyland, friends that at my wife that I've met out here when I'm

Mark: 00:46:40

in California, like, I don't know.

Mark: 00:46:44

And, and this isn't to say like, Again, I look back and I'm grateful for all the

Mark: 00:46:49

things that have flowed through this time.

Mark: 00:46:53

And is that to say like, oh, but if I had gotten Avenue Q, I'd have grown

Mark: 00:46:56

a mustache and been like super evil.

Mark: 00:46:58

It's like, no, life would have been different.

Kat: 00:47:01

Yeah.

Kat: 00:47:02

And we don't know what that would have been.

Kat: 00:47:03

And

Mark: 00:47:04

we don't know.

Mark: 00:47:04

And it could be equally wonderful.

Mark: 00:47:06

I think there is, there is wonderful stuff around us, all around us.

Kat: 00:47:11

Yeah,

Mark: 00:47:11

I

Lee: 00:47:11

think it's the gratefulness.

Lee: 00:47:12

Um, or it's, it's an, a opportunity for us to be grateful and thankful for the,

Lee: 00:47:17

you know, for the, the loss, the pain, but then the strength and the courage that

Lee: 00:47:21

we've gained from those experiences, what we've learned and where it's carried us

Lee: 00:47:25

to, because like the things that you're celebrating right now and that are in your

Lee: 00:47:29

life are a direct result of your past.

Lee: 00:47:31

And, um, instead of, you know, uh, I could have been a evil, dictator with mustaches,

Lee: 00:47:39

like you're, you're celebrating, you know, I'm, yeah, you know, you're celebrating.

Lee: 00:47:44

I have a wife in LA.

Lee: 00:47:46

I'm doing life.

Lee: 00:47:48

I have cats.

Lee: 00:47:49

I'm a flame Ashera.

Lee: 00:47:51

This is like so cool.

Kat: 00:47:52

Okay.

Kat: 00:47:52

Hold on.

Kat: 00:47:52

Hold on.

Kat: 00:47:53

The flame.

Kat: 00:47:54

So, okay.

Kat: 00:47:54

So, so Mark, I don't watch.

Kat: 00:47:56

Anime, he got me into literally watching one thing and that was Demon Slayer.

Kat: 00:48:01

It's the only thing I've watched, okay.

Kat: 00:48:03

And I actually really thoroughly enjoy it.

Kat: 00:48:05

I was surprised myself because I, I, I'm just not into it, you know, but he

Kat: 00:48:10

is completely into it, but I love it.

Kat: 00:48:14

It's so good.

Kat: 00:48:15

And we're so bummed

Lee: 00:48:16

at the end of the train.

Lee: 00:48:17

It's such a beautiful way to go, but like, gosh,

Kat: 00:48:23

But what's, what's your favorite, um, Uh, about working, favorite thing,

Kat: 00:48:29

I guess, about working as uh, Rengoku.

Mark: 00:48:32

Oh, uh, gosh.

Mark: 00:48:35

Rengoku has quite literally, it has very much changed my life.

Mark: 00:48:40

If there's one role that I can point at that has fundamentally changed a lot of

Mark: 00:48:46

things about just like, Like I've gone to tons of conventions to meet folks.

Mark: 00:48:52

I've been involved with this, uh, this little cultural touchstone and not

Mark: 00:48:57

even a little cultural touchstone.

Kat: 00:49:00

It's got a cult following.

Kat: 00:49:01

It does have a

Mark: 00:49:03

cult.

Mark: 00:49:04

Yeah.

Mark: 00:49:05

A big cult.

Mark: 00:49:05

It's

Kat: 00:49:05

got such a huge fan base.

Mark: 00:49:08

The most important thing about this, like I've, I've loved,

Mark: 00:49:11

uh, I love working in, in theater.

Mark: 00:49:13

I love working in entertainment.

Mark: 00:49:15

What Rangoku has done when we talk about, when you talk about your story with Final

Mark: 00:49:20

Fantasy, um, and the way it's affected you and the way it's helped you to connect

Mark: 00:49:24

with loss in your own life, and perhaps to process some of that loss, whenever I've,

Mark: 00:49:31

when I've started going to conventions.

Mark: 00:49:33

Um, and meeting people, and seeing Rengoku cosplay, and

Mark: 00:49:39

seeing the Rengoku merchandise, but then seeing Rengoku tattoos.

Mark: 00:49:45

People who have Set Your Heart Ablaze, Rengoku's face, sword, uh, dying

Mark: 00:49:51

moments tattooed on their bodies.

Mark: 00:49:53

Hearing people say that it has helped them process.

Mark: 00:49:58

Uh, getting through school, getting through a tough time at work, getting

Mark: 00:50:02

through a tough time where they think they might take their own life

Mark: 00:50:06

and things like that, where with the loss of their own brother, you

Mark: 00:50:11

know, like I've I've heard stories.

Mark: 00:50:14

More of these stories than I can count now and, and that's what it means

Mark: 00:50:21

to me is that, that, that, uh, it's, it's exactly what you were saying

Mark: 00:50:25

about how this affects our lives.

Mark: 00:50:29

And I had no idea that this was going to have the effect.

Mark: 00:50:34

Uh, Going into it.

Mark: 00:50:36

I knew it was a cool role.

Mark: 00:50:38

I knew it was a cool show.

Mark: 00:50:40

Uh, I knew the script was good Um, I I was excited to step up to the plate and

Mark: 00:50:46

do it But the real the real treasure of it has been After the aftermath and seeing

Mark: 00:50:54

everybody and seeing the impact that it's had and, and that I, I don't know.

Mark: 00:51:01

I don't know when that gets matched again.

Mark: 00:51:03

Um, you know, and, uh, and to be a small part of that is,

Mark: 00:51:09

is, um, It's, it's tremendous.

Mark: 00:51:12

And, uh, and I don't often know how to, how to deal with it other than

Mark: 00:51:17

to just like, be quiet, listen, make eye contact, be present, you know,

Mark: 00:51:25

and, and like, take it, take it in and know that this is, this is everything

Mark: 00:51:30

that I believe that creativity and art is capable of achieving.

Mark: 00:51:35

Um, and because I know I've felt it in my own ways, in the same

Mark: 00:51:38

way that you have, uh, with maybe not with this in particular.

Mark: 00:51:44

I mean, with this now for sure, um, And even in the moment of recording, I

Mark: 00:51:51

mean, I, I was, it was affecting me too.

Mark: 00:51:54

Uh, as, as I was recording it, um, funny, funny little divergent story.

Mark: 00:52:00

I was reading a script, uh, today.

Mark: 00:52:02

And one thing that I do like about art and creativity in general is as

Mark: 00:52:06

I'm reading through this, uh, I'm reading through lines of this character

Mark: 00:52:10

and the bio and whatnot, and I got to a point where I was like, Oh my

Mark: 00:52:15

God, I know exactly how you feel.

Mark: 00:52:18

This, this thing like just hit me and I was like, Oh my, I see,

Mark: 00:52:22

I see my, I see a little bit of myself in my own experience there.

Mark: 00:52:26

And, and I think that it's great.

Mark: 00:52:30

It's great to be able to like meet those moments where that is reflected.

Mark: 00:52:35

And I think that is part of that human connection, uh, uh, that allows

Mark: 00:52:39

us to process our own lives, to see other people, to be empathetic.

Mark: 00:52:46

So, I mean, it's even with this, I don't know if I'll get it.

Mark: 00:52:48

Thank you.

Mark: 00:52:48

I don't know what'll happen.

Mark: 00:52:50

I'll go in, I'll audition.

Mark: 00:52:52

But to me, again, to bring it back to Demon Slayer, that's the most

Mark: 00:52:55

special part of Demon Slayer, to me.

Mark: 00:52:57

And my involvement with it.

Mark: 00:52:59

And, uh, I, I, I couldn't feel more grateful, uh, and more lucky to Are

Kat: 00:53:09

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Lee: 00:54:56

It's just such a gift, I think for, I mean, that goes both ways.

Lee: 00:54:59

You know, like the healing, the connection, the processing that you get

Lee: 00:55:04

to do as you go through these characters, but then now like you're seeing it all

Lee: 00:55:07

the different cons and all this different things, just the, the true impact.

Lee: 00:55:11

Yeah.

Lee: 00:55:12

Like the power that's in, in theater, in arts, in music, in just creativity.

Lee: 00:55:19

Like there's so much of a, a power that's there that.

Lee: 00:55:24

Like, I'm thinking like kids in school and stuff, like they don't always get

Lee: 00:55:28

that opportunity because they're focused on like filling in the right bubbles

Lee: 00:55:31

for the SAT or ACT or whatever, or learning your basic math and English

Lee: 00:55:36

and everything, but not understanding the connection of like the human

Lee: 00:55:38

performance, the human creativity, like how, how that can help them.

Lee: 00:55:43

spur and bring everything else to life and really make us feel whole and healed,

Lee: 00:55:49

you know, in so many different ways.

Lee: 00:55:50

And it's such a power that, um, you've been given, Mark.

Lee: 00:55:52

And it's awesome to see, um, how that's working through you and in you also.

Lee: 00:55:57

Yeah.

Kat: 00:55:58

Yeah.

Kat: 00:55:58

Getting these characters to come to life.

Kat: 00:56:00

Um, it's just like, it's really awesome.

Kat: 00:56:02

Thank you for sharing that, Mark.

Kat: 00:56:03

It just really makes me, I mean, we both know Mark, you know, we, we love stories.

Kat: 00:56:08

I think as, as artists, we love stories when we, when we love music,

Kat: 00:56:11

We love stories because good music has good stories to them, right?

Kat: 00:56:16

And, and, and of course, like the, the composition and the instrumentation

Kat: 00:56:19

and all of that good stuff.

Kat: 00:56:21

But, um, it just really encourages me because part of the, uh, the shift that

Kat: 00:56:26

I've been doing kind of like in my own life is, Being a life coach for kids,

Kat: 00:56:31

and it's really, um, teaching them life skills, but it's through stories.

Kat: 00:56:37

So, I'm just so fortunate enough that, you know, I was looking of

Kat: 00:56:41

a way, like, how can I do this?

Kat: 00:56:43

How can I teach kids, like, you know, the value of mindset, the value of,

Kat: 00:56:47

like, the confidence, how to have soaring self esteem, how, you know,

Kat: 00:56:51

how to, how to have these things, and how to shift your perspective.

Kat: 00:56:54

When things don't go your way, right?

Kat: 00:56:56

That's like, that's the thing, right?

Kat: 00:56:57

Like we, we experience that all the time.

Kat: 00:57:00

And especially if you are an actor auditioning actively,

Kat: 00:57:03

that happens all the time.

Kat: 00:57:04

Right.

Kat: 00:57:05

But it just doesn't happen to actors.

Kat: 00:57:06

It happens to everybody, right?

Kat: 00:57:08

Like things not going your way.

Kat: 00:57:09

How do you shift your perspective?

Kat: 00:57:12

And my thought was like, well, how do you teach that to kids?

Kat: 00:57:15

Like.

Kat: 00:57:15

If they're like six, how do you teach that without lecturing them about it, you know?

Kat: 00:57:20

And so I fortunately found a program, it's called Adventures in Wisdom, and

Kat: 00:57:24

so I got certified in it, and it's basically teaching all these life skills,

Kat: 00:57:26

but it's literally through story form.

Kat: 00:57:29

So it's every life skill has a story, and, and you teach it.

Kat: 00:57:33

Take the kids through it and it's through guided questions and, and all that.

Kat: 00:57:36

But to kind of put it together, I not invented, but I just

Kat: 00:57:40

came up from my own experience.

Kat: 00:57:41

So I'm basically doing stories, movement, art of music.

Kat: 00:57:45

We're applying it to real life application and then transformation,

Kat: 00:57:48

which is what they're going to get out of that whole process.

Kat: 00:57:51

Right?

Kat: 00:57:51

So it's not just a story, but it's embodying it into our bodies through

Kat: 00:57:55

physical movement and actually putting it into music through playing the piano.

Kat: 00:57:58

So what you're sharing.

Kat: 00:58:00

It's basically the beginning, the story part is the beginning point of like my

Kat: 00:58:05

entrance way, my gateway to teaching these kids about these life skills.

Kat: 00:58:09

And so you sharing that really just gave me, every time I hear

Kat: 00:58:14

someone, you know, say these things, it, it just gives me even more.

Kat: 00:58:17

Not that I need more validation because I know this is a good thing,

Kat: 00:58:21

but it just helps, you know, it really helps to confirm it more.

Mark: 00:58:25

I absolutely a fantastic.

Mark: 00:58:27

I think that what you're doing to, especially when you're bringing it

Mark: 00:58:30

into the physical space when, when you were talking about that, a thought

Mark: 00:58:35

came to my mind where I was like it.

Mark: 00:58:37

I think it's the idealistic thought of any parent, uh, or adult is

Mark: 00:58:42

that, oh, if I could only tell.

Mark: 00:58:45

Yeah.

Mark: 00:58:45

The future generation, all of these things so that they don't have to go

Mark: 00:58:50

through it so that they will just know.

Mark: 00:58:53

Um, and, and I think that the point that maybe we perpetually are up against is

Mark: 00:59:00

that knowing is one component of it.

Mark: 00:59:03

Embodying and feeling and even, you know, at times, as hard as it is,

Mark: 00:59:08

experiencing it is, Uh, is a part of it perhaps inevitable in many, if not

Mark: 00:59:17

all cases that not only knowing and having that knowledge, but then meeting

Mark: 00:59:23

every moment because I think those moments are coming, whether we want to

Mark: 00:59:27

protect or not and what you're doing to like, kind of bring it into that

Mark: 00:59:31

physical space could be just another component to, to meet it physically,

Mark: 00:59:36

to generate that, that Uh, so that, so that those lessons can be learned in a

Mark: 00:59:42

more tactile fashion with other humans.

Mark: 00:59:45

Uh, I know we're doing this over a screen and, and through a podcast.

Mark: 00:59:50

And I know that there's like this whole AI threat looming or, you

Mark: 00:59:53

know, whatever you want to call it, but I think it's so important to be.

Mark: 01:00:00

With each other, I think there is an importance there, uh, and

Mark: 01:00:04

in this capability, no matter how good a tool a I will be here.

Mark: 01:00:08

We still all physically will be.

Mark: 01:00:11

And if we're not, if we're not learning and experiencing with each other, I think

Mark: 01:00:15

we're perhaps shortchanging ourselves.

Mark: 01:00:18

And or setting ourselves up for a lot of difficult situations later on.

Mark: 01:00:22

So what you're doing to like, make it physical, uh, seems brilliant.

Mark: 01:00:28

And I, I hope that there is so much success there.

Kat: 01:00:31

Thank you.

Kat: 01:00:32

Yeah.

Lee: 01:00:34

Quick, quick question on the physical side of things.

Lee: 01:00:37

Um, I'm just thinking of.

Lee: 01:00:39

Uh, the different roles that you've played are like as you're doing different

Lee: 01:00:42

auditions, like we're listening to some of the commercial auditions that you've done.

Lee: 01:00:47

Like Mark Gibbs

Kat: 01:00:47

sold me Taco Bell and Neeson Leaf.

Kat: 01:00:50

Oh, okay.

Kat: 01:00:51

You've been selling me all these things.

Kat: 01:00:53

I didn't know, huh?

Mark: 01:00:54

Well, I actually technically on my commercial

Mark: 01:00:57

demo, Those were fabricated spots.

Mark: 01:01:00

So a lot of times when you make a demo, you will do things that you haven't,

Mark: 01:01:04

uh, necessarily done to display.

Kat: 01:01:07

Oh, right.

Mark: 01:01:07

Well, you sound great.

Mark: 01:01:09

So let's just, however, I have sold you Dramamine ginger chews and cheese.

Mark: 01:01:14

It's so

Lee: 01:01:15

all right.

Lee: 01:01:17

So as you're doing some of these things, though, what I'm curious about, cause

Lee: 01:01:23

like Uh, well, we were talking about Rengoku, so if we're talking about

Lee: 01:01:26

the Demon Slayer side of things, he's jumping around, slicing, cutting.

Lee: 01:01:30

I'm just imagining you in

Kat: 01:01:31

your booth.

Lee: 01:01:32

Yeah, like, In this booth.

Lee: 01:01:34

We recorded it in here.

Lee: 01:01:36

Yeah, does that happen?

Lee: 01:01:37

Like, do you have to, or does it help you to get physical as you're

Lee: 01:01:42

doing your, your, uh, voiceover work?

Lee: 01:01:44

Or do you have to kind of like, imagine it all in your head and just, blah, let it

Lee: 01:01:48

just, you know, You know, come out of you.

Lee: 01:01:50

Cause like that, your

Kat: 01:01:51

zombie sounds, sorry.

Mark: 01:01:55

Right.

Mark: 01:01:56

So, I mean, technically you do need to, you want to, if you have a little

Mark: 01:01:59

microphone, you do want to stay on mic and like static, um, and probably

Mark: 01:02:05

closer than I am to it, you know, you want to be like on axis, but.

Mark: 01:02:09

One of the things that opened my mind up when doing voiceover is being

Mark: 01:02:14

physical, is bringing your body to it, is moving around, there's, there's,

Mark: 01:02:20

engineers, audio engineers are wizards, and they can do a lot of, not that

Mark: 01:02:25

they want to, but they can do a lot of like post processing, cleaning.

Mark: 01:02:29

Uh, of things.

Mark: 01:02:31

So there is an amount of movement you can get.

Mark: 01:02:33

Obviously you don't want to get too shifty in movie because it creates a lot of work

Mark: 01:02:39

down the line and it doesn't provide for good clean audio, but yes, absolutely.

Mark: 01:02:44

Using your body.

Mark: 01:02:45

This whole booth was just like.

Mark: 01:02:47

Bogged up, uh, at the end of that fight scene, because it's just, you're putting

Mark: 01:02:53

so much into it and, um, Yeah, there was a thing that I wanted to say about

Mark: 01:02:58

like those moments when we're talking about physicality, a lot of times.

Mark: 01:03:04

When I'm, when I'll be in, in like a role or an audition at the best of times,

Mark: 01:03:08

I feel like it's when I am physically connected to it, I would lie down.

Mark: 01:03:14

I was in a production of rent and I would just lie down and, and,

Mark: 01:03:19

uh, and listen to, uh, I would be listening to the recording just to

Mark: 01:03:23

kind of like get a sense of the show.

Mark: 01:03:25

And I would almost be like mentally going through the emotional Uh, obstacle

Mark: 01:03:34

course in my own head as I'm listening to it and feeling it in different parts

Mark: 01:03:40

of my body and going on that mental journey and, um, and practicing a

Mark: 01:03:46

sort of like active internal empathy.

Mark: 01:03:49

That I, I swear I've never said that term before, but I'm going to

Mark: 01:03:53

potentially use it a lot more because I think it is physical inside of us.

Mark: 01:03:58

Um, and especially at the end of this arc, when he looks up and sees his mother.

Mark: 01:04:03

Um, and one thing that I do love about anime is they do so much with, it

Mark: 01:04:09

sometimes gets gaffed where they're like,

Mark: 01:04:13

where they're doing a lot of those intakes and exhalations of breath

Mark: 01:04:17

that can sometimes become, um, What's the term I'm looking for?

Mark: 01:04:23

They can sometimes become like trite or overused or the, or maybe this

Mark: 01:04:27

source of like, Oh, that's just a, a thing that's performative, but in a

Mark: 01:04:31

way that's that breath, that exhalation can become a very physical instead of

Mark: 01:04:38

a technical thing where it's just like.

Mark: 01:04:40

It can become physically, uh, uh, you know, emotionally motivated

Mark: 01:04:45

that gives it just a little bit of extra dimension to it.

Mark: 01:04:48

And especially at the end of that, uh, arc when he is seeing his mother.

Mark: 01:04:53

You better believe that I was internally like also like weeping

Mark: 01:04:57

as part of the audience, but like having to then harness that emotion.

Mark: 01:05:02

I feel like emotion bangs around inside of us in our heads, in our

Mark: 01:05:05

hearts as a very physical thing.

Mark: 01:05:08

And to me, like the best times in acting is when that physical thing

Mark: 01:05:13

is kicking around and you can kind of dance with it inside of you.

Mark: 01:05:18

Um, and I think it brings that, that sort of extra 10, 20 percent

Mark: 01:05:24

of something unidentifiable and special to a moment like that.

Mark: 01:05:29

And even that is internally, uh, maybe I'm not like jumping, doing jumping jacks

Mark: 01:05:34

or pushups in that moment, but there is something very physically happening.

Mark: 01:05:39

There's, there's a storm inside that is brewing and, and I think it's where you

Mark: 01:05:44

can also like, you see it a lot in film.

Mark: 01:05:46

Some of the best moments in film are when no one's talking, when they're just.

Mark: 01:05:50

focused on somebody and you can be focused on somebody who is like dead behind the

Mark: 01:05:55

eyes and get nothing, but you can be focused on some of these great actors

Mark: 01:05:59

and actresses in these performances.

Mark: 01:06:01

And you know that there is just, there is chaos happening inside

Mark: 01:06:05

their heads at that moment.

Mark: 01:06:08

And that's.

Mark: 01:06:09

Apparent, it's so apparent and we may not as the audience be able to say, ah, that's

Mark: 01:06:15

exactly what's happening, but we feel it.

Mark: 01:06:19

We know it's happening.

Mark: 01:06:20

And that to me is like, that is the important part.

Mark: 01:06:23

Wow.

Mark: 01:06:24

That's great.

Kat: 01:06:25

Wow.

Kat: 01:06:26

Mark, this is, no, this is so good.

Kat: 01:06:29

This is so good.

Kat: 01:06:30

Thank you so much.

Kat: 01:06:31

I guess we're gonna, you know, wrap it up because we want to

Kat: 01:06:34

be respectful of your time.

Kat: 01:06:36

Although I feel like Lee definitely probably has

Mark: 01:06:39

so

Kat: 01:06:40

much more to ask.

Mark: 01:06:43

I'm a talker too.

Mark: 01:06:44

So again, I will fill gaps.

Mark: 01:06:45

I'm not that far behind of you either.

Kat: 01:06:49

So I guess the kind of like the final question for us, you know, we

Kat: 01:06:53

always love, asking our guests this because it's great to see the different

Kat: 01:06:57

answers because everybody has different perspective and life experiences.

Kat: 01:07:00

But what's your idea or, um, you know, your own take on a wildly wealthy life?

Kat: 01:07:06

What does that mean to you?

Kat: 01:07:08

I think

Mark: 01:07:09

I was, I was thinking about this, uh, a little bit, uh, or I mean,

Mark: 01:07:15

maybe not this specific question, but, uh, but in terms of like, what

Mark: 01:07:18

matters to me, I think it's, it's, it's maybe to simplify it, doing your

Mark: 01:07:26

best, despite what the return is, you know, cause a lot of times I, I, I've.

Mark: 01:07:33

I've thought about this career in, in many ways, and I guess I'm

Mark: 01:07:36

just talking about career, but I think that's the whole point.

Mark: 01:07:39

There's something beyond career, as we say, like, oh, a career is when you

Mark: 01:07:45

fill out some, uh, W whatevers, uh, they give you, uh, monopoly money, or beans,

Mark: 01:07:53

or whatever the currency is in return.

Mark: 01:07:55

You get to purchase a bunch of baubles that, uh, that you surround yourself

Mark: 01:07:59

with, and, uh, and, you know, Throw some parties, but I think there's so

Mark: 01:08:04

much like the pursuit of creativity being good at a thing for, for the

Mark: 01:08:10

sake of being good, being good to other people for the sake of that.

Mark: 01:08:16

And I know we live in a society that attaches a lot of importance

Mark: 01:08:20

to success, uh, as it pertains to what happens on a spreadsheet.

Mark: 01:08:26

And I just simply don't think that that's what.

Mark: 01:08:29

Life's about, uh, I hope it's not what life's about.

Mark: 01:08:34

I hope it's about something.

Mark: 01:08:35

Well, I hope, and I personally believe that it's about something different

Mark: 01:08:40

and, and I, I get excited when I see good things, whether they're the most

Mark: 01:08:46

popular and, and well funded things or whether they are, you know, a shoestring

Mark: 01:08:53

doing it for the love of it, budget.

Mark: 01:08:56

Or, you know, I, I think, I think goodness exists independent of

Mark: 01:09:01

how much money gets thrown at it.

Mark: 01:09:04

And I think that that is.

Mark: 01:09:07

What we'd all do well to maybe pay a bit more attention to pursuing.

Kat: 01:09:11

Yeah.

Mark: 01:09:12

So that's my hope.

Lee: 01:09:14

That's great.

Lee: 01:09:15

And Mark, with everybody going to buy a PlayStation, buying a couple

Lee: 01:09:20

copies of Remake and Rebirth, sitting down on Netflix and binge

Lee: 01:09:25

watching, uh, Demon Slayer, where else can people find you, Mark?

Mark: 01:09:30

Oh, uh, a lot of, hopefully in, in the next, uh, AAA and or Indie game

Mark: 01:09:37

that's coming out, uh, hopefully in your next favorite, uh, game console,

Mark: 01:09:40

PC, Mac, whatever you play on.

Mark: 01:09:42

Um, uh, they can find me on IMDB and a bunch of previous shows and stuff.

Mark: 01:09:48

You can hopefully find me at a convention coming to town near you.

Mark: 01:09:52

I swear I'm trying to get to all of them.

Mark: 01:09:54

All different places across the country.

Mark: 01:09:57

Um, I'm on Instagram, uh, and Whitten, uh, I'm on Twitter for the moment at

Mark: 01:10:03

MP Whitten, and I also do a couple of, uh, podcasts, well, I've had a

Mark: 01:10:08

couple of audio drama podcasts that got produced in the past that are very

Mark: 01:10:12

near and dear to my own creative heart.

Mark: 01:10:14

Uh, it's myself and my friend, Veronica, she wrote, uh, I did a lot of the

Mark: 01:10:19

audio production on them and acted in.

Mark: 01:10:22

Pretty much all of them.

Mark: 01:10:24

Uh, it's the theater of tomorrow and the hotel.

Mark: 01:10:26

It is where I met my wife, Kelly, doing the theater of tomorrow.

Mark: 01:10:31

Uh, they're very fun audio drama podcasts.

Mark: 01:10:34

If anyone needs a quick listen when you're on, on the road on a, on a trip

Mark: 01:10:38

or something, and you want to throw on some sci fi or some moody, broody horror,

Mark: 01:10:43

you can tune into either of those.

Mark: 01:10:45

So, lots of places and hopefully more.

Lee: 01:10:48

I have a hour and a half drive to, uh, Malibu a few times a week and.

Lee: 01:10:52

I might be doing that on, uh, this tomorrow morning, actually.

Lee: 01:10:55

So

Mark: 01:10:56

yeah, here we go.

Mark: 01:10:57

Check them out.

Mark: 01:10:57

Let me know what you, what you think.

Mark: 01:10:59

Uh, we're, we're real proud of them.

Mark: 01:11:01

And, uh, like I said, it's a theater of tomorrow is a sci fi anthology.

Mark: 01:11:04

Lots of different fun stories.

Mark: 01:11:06

Hotel is again, more of that moody, uh, uh, horror that follows consistent

Mark: 01:11:12

characters through a lot of seasons.

Kat: 01:11:14

Yeah,

Mark: 01:11:14

that's

Kat: 01:11:15

awesome.

Mark: 01:11:15

Thank you, Mark.

Mark: 01:11:16

Thank you, Mark.

Kat: 01:11:17

This is so wonderful.

Kat: 01:11:18

It's so good to see you and chat with you.

Mark: 01:11:21

Well, this has been lovely.

Mark: 01:11:22

Thank you again.

Mark: 01:11:23

And um, I'm so glad we got a chance to connect and chat and

Mark: 01:11:27

uh, I'm wishing you all the best and hopefully see you real soon.

Mark: 01:11:31

Thank you.

Kat: 01:11:32

Yeah.

Kat: 01:11:33

All right, friends.

Kat: 01:11:34

That's a wrap on today's episode of Wildly Wealthy Life.

Kat: 01:11:37

We hope you're feeling fired up and ready to take on the world with

Kat: 01:11:40

your brilliant mind and brave heart.

Lee: 01:11:42

If you love this episode, make sure you hit that subscribe button on YouTube

Lee: 01:11:45

or your favorite podcast platform.

Lee: 01:11:46

It helps us keep bringing you the good stuff.

Kat: 01:11:48

And hey, while you're at it, drop us a rating or review.

Kat: 01:11:51

It takes like, what, 30 seconds and it makes a huge difference for us.

Lee: 01:11:55

Also, if you know someone who could use a little guidance on growth,

Lee: 01:11:58

mindset, leadership, and creativity, share this episode with them.

Lee: 01:12:01

Sometimes that one conversation can spark up a whole new direction.

Kat: 01:12:04

Thanks for hanging out with us today.

Kat: 01:12:06

Go out there, live wildly, be wealthy in all the ways that matter to you.

Kat: 01:12:09

And we'll catch you on the next one.