Episode 39

full
Published on:

19th Nov 2024

From Rejection to Reinvention: A Journey through Storytelling and Creativity

In this episode of Wildly Wealthy Life, Kat and Lee are joined by Mark Whitten, a renowned LA-based voice actor featured in popular anime, video games, and projects with companies like DreamWorks and Disney. Known for his roles in Demon Slayer, Genshin Impact, and Final Fantasy VII, Mark shares his unique perspective on the power of creativity, resilience, and self-accountability. They dive into the challenges of voice acting, the art of auditioning, and Mark’s transformative journey through rejection, reinvention, and rediscovering his love for performing. This conversation is a must for creatives, dreamers, and anyone looking to harness their inner strength.

Discussion Links:

00:00 Introduction to Mark Whitten

05:00 Mark shares insights on self-discipline and finding success in voice acting

08:51 Lessons from working with mentors and developing self-accountability

20:18 How to navigate rejection and find purpose through resilience

31:02 The impact of anime and video game roles on Mark's personal growth

34:17 Mark' s experience with Demon Slayer and connecting with fans

43:13 Reflection on loss, success, and life's unexpected outcomes

1:02:28 Mark' s perspective on living a "Wildly Wealthy Life"

AVENUE Q Musical

https://www.broadway.com/shows/avenue-q-off-bway/

RENT Musical

https://www.broadway.com/shows/rent/

Demon Slayer

https://demonslayer-anime.com/

Kyojuro Rengoku (character)

https://kimetsu-no-yaiba.fandom.com/wiki/Kyojuro_Rengoku

Final Fantasy 7 Original (game)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/39140/FINAL_FANTASY_VII/

Final Fantasy 7 Remake (game)

https://ffvii-remake-intergrade.square-enix-games.com/en-us/

Cult of the Lamb (game)

https://www.cultofthelamb.com/

Hollow Knight (game)

https://www.hollowknight.com/

Hyper Light Drifter (game)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/257850/Hyper_Light_Drifter/

Civilization (game)

https://civilization.2k.com/

The Theater of Tomorrow - Audio Drama Podcast

https://midnightdisease.net/theatre-of-tomorrow

The Hotel - Audio Drama Podcast

https://midnightdisease.net/the-hotel

Instagram

@mwhitten

https://www.instagram.com/mwhitten?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

X formely known as Twitter

https://x.com/mpwhitten

Mentioned in this episode:

Brilliant Minds Brave Hearts Program Priority List

Free Video Training

Book Recommendation

Transcript
Lee:

So I have this, I don't know why I have the illustration of like a seed,

Lee:

like when it's something painful or something that we feel like we lost,

Lee:

like we're letting it go, we're putting it in the ground, just letting it go.

Lee:

But then like we could return later and it's got fruit, shade, comfort,

Lee:

you know, beauty to it years later.

Lee:

You know, or maybe it's just,

Mark:

it's gone, but you let it go truly only something that can be traced back to

Mark:

its origin from the perspective that mad.

Mark:

Now I'm like, Oh, I knew all along that this was heading in that

Mark:

direction is like, I didn't know.

Mark:

You're right.

Mark:

It's, it's very much that seed.

Mark:

If you buy a packet of them and it's just mixed seeds, you don't know what they are.

Mark:

But if you are planting them and planting each one, things do happen over time.

Mark:

Things do come back around in ways that are totally unexpected.

Lee:

Hello, and welcome back to wildly wealthy life, the podcast.

Lee:

And I am very excited about today's episode.

Lee:

Get ready to set your hearts ablaze, ladies and gentlemen.

Lee:

Uh, Mark Witten.

Lee:

Is a LA based actor working in animation and video games with companies like

Lee:

DreamWorks, Disney, Netflix, if you've heard of any of these, DC, Sony

Lee:

PlayStation, Square Enix, Nintendo, Bethesda, EA, and a whole bunch more.

Lee:

Notable roles include Kyojuru Rengoku from Demon Slayer, The Flame Ashara.

Lee:

Uh, Kadenkara Kazuya from Genshin Impact, Dr.

Lee:

Kurt Connors, uh, which is basically the lizard, um, from Marvel's Spider Man 2,

Lee:

uh, Cetus from Fire Emblems, The Three Houses, O from Home, Adventures of Tip

Lee:

and O, uh, Leslie Kyle, From, I think, not I think, I know, my favorite video

Lee:

game franchise, Final Fantasy VII, the remake, and Alex in Street Fighter V,

Lee:

which I have on my PlayStation right now.

Lee:

Mark is also co creator, actor, voice director for the popular horror podcast,

Lee:

The Hotel, and the award winning sci fi anthology, The Theater of Tomorrow.

Lee:

Yeah.

Kat:

Hey, my name is Kat,

Lee:

and I'm Lee,

Kat:

and welcome to the

Lee:

Wildly Wealthy Life podcast.

Lee:

In this show, we explore the journey of what it means to live a truly

Lee:

exceptional and fulfilling life.

Kat:

Each episode focuses on how a foundation of brilliant minds and

Kat:

brave hearts nurtured through the arts leads to lifelong success.

Lee:

Get inspired with actionable tips to foster a growth

Lee:

mindset, leadership values.

Lee:

And creativity and children and adults turning their potential into lasting

Lee:

contributions for their communities.

Kat:

We hope that you embrace the challenge to shift your perspective as we

Kat:

equip you and the next generation for a

Lee:

wildly wealthy life.

Kat:

Normally, we do our takeaway standing up so you guys can see

Kat:

our matching cat samurai t shirts.

Kat:

But today, if you're watching, if you're listening on Spotify, watch it

Kat:

on YouTube, we have Boogie on Lee's arms, so we can't stand up and that's

Kat:

why we're recording our takeaways here.

Lee:

Sweet.

Lee:

Uh, my takeaway, uh, we need to go visit Mark.

Lee:

Hi, Mark.

Lee:

If you're listening, hit me up, brother.

Lee:

Let's go get some coffee or head over to the closest cat cafe and have some laughs.

Kat:

Yeah.

Kat:

Um, my takeaway is, uh, just his letting go, letting things come full

Kat:

circle, trusting, uh, doing your best, being excellent at your work.

Kat:

And then his take on a wildly wealthy life at the very end.

Kat:

I felt like very, very.

Kat:

Um, a valuable.

Kat:

So don't miss that.

Kat:

That was really an amazing interview.

Lee:

Yeah.

Lee:

Uh, I also just enjoyed the sharing of your gift

Kat:

that

Lee:

he talked about.

Lee:

So we all have different skill sets that we're trying to develop.

Lee:

We all have different expertise and things that we're good at

Lee:

and letting those things shine.

Lee:

And it's a good reminder to just keep pressing into your hobbies, the

Lee:

things that you love, and there's going to be fruit that comes from it.

Lee:

So I think that's some of the bigger lessons that are.

Lee:

Are coming out from this episode.

Kat:

Awesome.

Kat:

Let's bring mark in

Kat:

Is it a home studio you're

Lee:

in mark

Kat:

hi

Mark:

Good to see you.

Mark:

What's up?

Kat:

It's good to see you.

Kat:

I said, is

Mark:

that a home studio you're in?

Mark:

Yes This is my my little home studio here

Kat:

your magic booth.

Kat:

Very

Mark:

cool in a booth in a magic booth right now Yeah,

Mark:

there's uh, there's wonderful.

Mark:

Uh um Construction stuff happening outside today.

Mark:

So instead of being in a normal room, I get to just kind of lock

Mark:

myself inside the padded box.

Kat:

Any kitty going to make an appearance today?

Mark:

I hope so.

Mark:

I mean, I've left the door open for them to like kind of make their way up.

Mark:

Vesper was in here.

Mark:

She was exploring and inspecting, but, uh, uh, once I shut the

Mark:

door, she was like, nah, I, I don't want to be in here anymore.

Kat:

Because we're in our dining room table and our cats walk in front of us.

Kat:

And so we've had podcast recordings where the butt goes into the camera.

Kat:

We're like, you know what?

Kat:

That's fine.

Kat:

And by the way, Mark, we wore this shirt.

Kat:

We were reserving this shirt, by the way, for our interview with you.

Mark:

I love it.

Mark:

Uh, they look fantastic.

Mark:

Don't think I didn't, uh, wasn't clocking those immediately.

Kat:

We decided to wear, like, Batching Cat shirts in every

Kat:

interview, but This one was special.

Kat:

This was one of our New York ones that we haven't worn yet.

Kat:

So we wore it specially because, uh, we're interviewing you.

Mark:

This is good.

Mark:

You have one for every different interview then.

Kat:

Well,

Mark:

a little bit of an obsession.

Mark:

We're getting, we're

Kat:

getting there.

Mark:

How long has it been?

Mark:

Like,

Kat:

uh, well, since 2013.

Kat:

Like,

Mark:

oh my God, really?

Mark:

Since 2013.

Kat:

Yeah.

Kat:

That's the, that's the year that Aladdin closed.

Kat:

Right?

Kat:

See?

Kat:

Had

Mark:

met one of the,

Kat:

I think it took close in 2013, doesn't it?

Kat:

Didn't it?

Kat:

I think so.

Mark:

My god.

Mark:

Well, it's good to see you again, . I, it was so lovely to hear from You'all.

Mark:

Um, how's life been for the past decade?

Kat:

Well.

Kat:

It's been life, you know, we have, um, you know, three babies, three fur

Kat:

babies, um, and then, uh, who loves to just make their appearances, you know,

Kat:

but yeah, he's, uh, changed jobs a lot.

Kat:

Yeah, just like,

Lee:

uh, one was, uh, COVID, the other was just a school that, you know, Had

Lee:

kind of outlived its, its life and, uh, I progressed to someplace else,

Lee:

but I'm over at Pepperdine now in, um, Malibu at their business school.

Lee:

So it's pretty cool.

Lee:

Uh, but actually I've growing up, I was always into like arts and animation.

Lee:

So it was funny.

Lee:

The last, like 15 years I was at different film and art schools.

Lee:

So we may have some people that have crossed paths with each other.

Lee:

Um, like actually, do you know John Eric Bentley by any chance?

Lee:

Yes.

Lee:

Okay.

Lee:

He's, uh, Barrett, his Final Fantasy.

Mark:

Is he Barrett?

Mark:

I was gonna say, yeah.

Lee:

Yeah, and he's in a few other TV shows and animes and stuff, but we were

Lee:

in a theater company together for a while.

Lee:

And, um, it's just cool seeing him on there.

Lee:

And I see that you are Leslie in, uh, the Final Fantasy, which is awesome.

Mark:

Yes, yeah, that one, I was, I was super happy to be a part of that game.

Mark:

Obviously, big part of the childhood, but like, yeah, I was super stoked to be,

Mark:

Well, and still be, I guess, involved.

Mark:

I'm in the second one for a little bit, but yeah, I, John is, John's great.

Mark:

I haven't actually had a chance to meet him, but I am very aware,

Mark:

obviously, of what he does.

Mark:

Yeah, yeah,

Lee:

because that's the interesting part about what you, you get to do is

Lee:

like you're in all these, um, animes, games, TV shows, movies, commercials,

Lee:

uh, but like your interaction with people is kind of limited.

Lee:

Yeah.

Lee:

Right, like you're, I mean, basically living in this foam box, as you said.

Mark:

Box?

Mark:

And then this thing.

Mark:

Yeah, until I started doing conventions, even, I didn't really, uh, I didn't

Mark:

really meet a ton of folks that I worked with on a regular basis.

Mark:

Which is funny, everyone at Cons is like, Uh, how do you like working

Mark:

with The, this person or that person.

Mark:

I'm like, I don't know.

Mark:

I hear their voice occasionally when it's, uh, when they have them

Mark:

recorded before they have me recorded.

Mark:

Um, but yeah, it's, it's been, I mean, we can get into this more as we, as we talk,

Mark:

uh, as things are going on, but it's, it's been very, rewarding, but it's also

Mark:

been very isolating by nature of the work.

Mark:

It's a weird way to perform and I love it, but there are, it's downsides,

Mark:

obviously, like, like being at the stage at Aladdin and getting to like

Mark:

see people and be physically present with people has been, you know, missed.

Kat:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah.

Kat:

I looked at your site and I was listening to your demo reels and I was

Kat:

like, man, you got a lot of voices.

Kat:

It's really cool.

Kat:

It's like, it's, it's really amazing.

Kat:

What kind of, um, I guess, like growing up, you know, like, of course

Kat:

you probably, you know, you're into acting, you're training, what kind of

Kat:

like leadership values did you have to have, like, you know, As a child

Kat:

or going into your adulthood that kind of made you into this, uh, voice

Kat:

actor who's very successful and, you know, disciplined in your work and,

Kat:

and do what you got to do, even when it's so self isolating, as you said.

Mark:

That is a, that is a big question.

Mark:

That is covering, um, as far as, Leadership goes, I mean, especially when

Mark:

I was growing up, it, I don't know if I necessarily, I don't know, I think that

Mark:

there were other leaders in my life, uh, that, that helped me to get to where I am.

Mark:

And I think that especially, this may be a separate point to be talked

Mark:

about maybe a little bit, uh, in its own little box, but when you get

Mark:

to, you know, Be in this profession.

Mark:

What I've found out is that you do have to self lead a lot of the time because of

Mark:

how it is because of how isolated it is.

Mark:

Like when we're, when we're auditioning for theater, um, or even, you know, pre

Mark:

COVID, a lot of people were going in and doing film auditions and everything.

Mark:

It's very, uh, much more collaborative.

Mark:

You go in and you're, you're with people, scene partners, even, um, And you're

Mark:

getting directed, uh, generally, or you're getting watched in the moment

Mark:

by a human, um, but for voiceover, when I started transition into that,

Mark:

and I was doing it even when we were, um, working in Aladdin, uh, and, and

Mark:

Billy, uh, you remember Billy, he was getting into it too, and, um, it just,

Mark:

when you're doing that, uh, so much of it was like, Uh, tape yourself and send

Mark:

it off, tape yourself and send it off.

Mark:

And so that's where that being a leader, uh, kind of comes in.

Mark:

You have to self direct, you have to kind of, there's absolutely no feedback loop,

Mark:

uh, or a very limited feedback loop.

Mark:

And there already wasn't much of one anyways for things like, uh, film, TV,

Mark:

theater, um, You know, it's very much a don't call us, we'll call you if

Mark:

something happens thing, but even more so to the point, you don't even have

Mark:

someone being like, okay, that was great.

Mark:

Now try it like this.

Mark:

It's very much.

Mark:

You, you shoot your shot and, and then go on to the next one.

Mark:

Um, which has been a new challenge, uh, as it were, but as far as like growing

Mark:

up and getting into things, which was the original point, I think that what primed

Mark:

me or, or positioned me well for this was having good leaders and good coaches and.

Mark:

Paying attention to them.

Mark:

I think I had, I think I got lucky.

Mark:

I had a lot of folks in, in my life.

Mark:

I did, uh, productions, uh, when I was quite young and I looked up to a lot of

Mark:

the people in these community theaters, regional theaters, uh, that I was lucky

Mark:

enough to work with as mentors and being young, there were a lot of them.

Mark:

Maybe not all.

Mark:

Actually, I wasn't quite aware of the mentor relationship.

Mark:

So I don't know.

Mark:

Maybe they were like, who's this kid?

Mark:

Get out.

Mark:

Um, but I was around long enough to like soak a lot of what they were doing in.

Mark:

In fact, that's what my, my mom prompted me to do very astutely.

Mark:

She was like, just go there and be like a sponge and just collect everything.

Mark:

And I think that's, that's been very important.

Mark:

It's, it's not, Not just to have a single mentor, but to really be paying attention

Mark:

to everything that's going on around you.

Mark:

And luckily I, I loved that.

Mark:

I already loved the environment I was in.

Mark:

So paying more attention to it was easy.

Mark:

I already felt comfortable in that space.

Mark:

And then the more I paid attention to what people were doing, even unprompted,

Mark:

it wasn't like someone necessarily had to come up to me and say, Hey

Mark:

kid, you should try it like this.

Mark:

I'm watching people.

Mark:

And also trying it like they're doing, uh, as well of my own accord.

Mark:

Um, and I think that spark is kind of within us.

Mark:

Uh, and I think that maybe an important thing is that you don't.

Mark:

You don't necessarily need permission to do it.

Mark:

I guess maybe some of my mom's prompting was my permission.

Mark:

Um, and certainly when people do teach you in that context, whether it be in a

Mark:

formal classroom or a note in a production that you're in, um, Then you have

Mark:

that permission to go ahead and do it.

Mark:

But then giving yourself permission to always be playing and always be exploring.

Mark:

That was important, I think.

Mark:

I believe it's important.

Mark:

It's weird.

Mark:

A lot of this, I guess, well, when you interview anyone,

Mark:

it's all through our lens.

Mark:

So, uh, I'll try to be as honest as I can in expressing how, how I view things.

Mark:

Yeah.

Kat:

I love it though.

Kat:

So you're saying like the value of play exploration, the value of mentorship,

Kat:

having like good mentors around you, especially as a child, you know, and

Kat:

in your teens and adulthood, even as an adult, I think we all need mentors,

Kat:

you know, as adults and, and coaches and whatever it is that we want to.

Kat:

Excella and just in life in general, like what I'm hearing is the leadership

Kat:

skill is really self accountability because I always tell like my piano

Kat:

students, you know, that learning a musical instrument is so unique in a

Kat:

sense that if you're in a drama club, or if you're in dance, or if you are in

Kat:

sports, right, you go and be with people to play sports, you go to to be in a

Kat:

studio to dance, you go to, you know, with your scene partner to do acting, right?

Kat:

But with a musical instrument, even if you play in a band, um,

Kat:

for you to get good first, right?

Kat:

You actually have to learn the skill yourself and by yourself, and there's

Kat:

no one else who's gonna basically tell you, Hey, I'm going to sit with you while

Kat:

you practice piano and just be with you.

Kat:

And there's nothing like that.

Kat:

Like you usually, as a child, you sit down and you just have to, you know,

Kat:

think of like a six, seven year old and you're like, Oh, I have to practice now.

Kat:

And I got to do this alone myself.

Kat:

You know, it's like that self accountability and actually

Kat:

learning how to lead yourself.

Kat:

Um, do you remember any instances as a child where you like, Had to learn

Kat:

that like the self accountability part or any stories about that.

Mark:

I remember when I failed at it We

Kat:

like we like that because we learn from failures

Mark:

in the context of what when you're you're mentioning like especially,

Mark:

um musicianship and uh and bands and and I think your point on self

Mark:

accountability is And you're right.

Mark:

With something like a band, that, that makes me think of like, you

Mark:

have the, all these people playing these instruments, but when you get

Mark:

together for band practice, you're not necessarily teaching any individual

Mark:

how to play their instrument.

Mark:

You are creating the sound of the band with all of those people

Mark:

who theoretically have all been.

Mark:

Doing that work of their own accord.

Mark:

My brothers are wonderful pianists.

Mark:

Uh, one of my, um, one in particular, he he's been still doing it,

Mark:

uh, throughout his whole life.

Mark:

He composes, he works on improvisation, jazz.

Mark:

One of those things was that I had to sit down and practice.

Mark:

So it kind of fell on me as the third child to be like,

Mark:

Oh, you'll also learn piano.

Mark:

We got this piano.

Mark:

Everyone's learned in it.

Mark:

I did not take to it.

Mark:

Like, I just did for whatever reason, I would sit there and I, I

Mark:

love music and I loved, uh, I even probably liked playing piano, but I

Mark:

did not love it to the point where I.

Mark:

Was self accountable and I was drawn in other directions and it

Mark:

was like, it was like pulling teeth to try and get me to do a thing.

Mark:

And I think that at that point in time you arrive at a couple of situations.

Mark:

Is there someone there in your life who is, you know, pushing you

Mark:

forward and dodgy ground, right?

Mark:

Like push the kid, push the mark too hard when he doesn't want to learn piano.

Mark:

Um, and maybe other things will pop up.

Mark:

But Push Mark really hard because he's resisting and maybe he breaks

Mark:

through something where he's like, Oh, well, now it's easy.

Mark:

And I feel that I mean, it could be in my own head, that feedback loop

Mark:

where I'm like, I'm trash at piano.

Mark:

So I don't want to practice, um, instead of finding out like,

Mark:

no, you're not terrible at it.

Mark:

This just requires attention one way or another.

Mark:

That realization did not land upon my brain.

Mark:

Um, and, and I was so resistant that I think my parents were

Mark:

just like, You know what?

Mark:

We've pushed you as much as we want, as we feel is right as parents.

Mark:

You know, we've sent you to classes.

Mark:

And I think that probably a lot of parents and families find this with their

Mark:

kids that they try a bunch of things you try so many different things to

Mark:

see what grabs your child's attention.

Mark:

And as a child, hopefully, if we're lucky enough, we are.

Mark:

Able to try so many things as well to find what grabs our internal attention.

Mark:

It's not to say that things don't require work.

Mark:

It's just to say that perhaps, uh, when work and motivation to work meet each

Mark:

other, there is like there you found your sweet spot and and my sweet spot was.

Mark:

Categorically not piano.

Mark:

Um, so despite it being a musical art, despite it being a creative

Mark:

thing now, like I'd sure roll up occasionally I've like bounced

Mark:

back into it because I like music.

Mark:

And so I played the final fantasy theme in college.

Mark:

I learned how to like, you know, clunkily play that out because I found it soothing.

Mark:

Um, but again, it never really took hold to the point where I am a pianist myself.

Mark:

And I think I've perhaps diverted from your point of self accountability.

Kat:

Oh, it's okay.

Kat:

It's all good.

Kat:

No, but it

Lee:

does bring up another point I wanted to ask about, because with, um, the

Lee:

industry that you're in, and just the, the nature of that, that business, and

Lee:

being with voice acting, as you said, like you're recording yourself and sending

Lee:

it off, recording yourself and sending it off, and I don't know how many you do

Lee:

a week, but I imagine, say, out of 10, maybe you get a response on 1, to 2, to 3.

Lee:

As you grow, maybe that turns into 5?

Lee:

Half?

Lee:

50%?

Lee:

Probably not?

Lee:

Okay.

Lee:

Not for me.

Lee:

Yeah, no, no, no, no.

Lee:

And it's, I imagine, yeah, it's, it's very low, like, response numbers.

Lee:

But with, um, with that kind of, non response.

Lee:

What is the mindset that you've developed going into these professional auditions

Lee:

where you're, I don't, you can share how many you think you do a week, but, um,

Lee:

you, you have to have this, this grit.

Lee:

I imagine you have to have a, not like a caring, but then also a not

Lee:

caring on the response side of things.

Lee:

So it's, talk about your, your kind of mental state, your, your thoughts

Lee:

as you go through some of this

Mark:

audition process.

Mark:

Sure.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

I mean, I think that's one of the toughest parts of the job and one that,

Mark:

um, one that I've gone through many different stages with, if I, if I kind

Mark:

of look back over the past 20, 20 years that I've been doing, trying to do this

Mark:

professionally through theater, uh, what have you, it's difficult and it's

Mark:

taken on many forms and you're right.

Mark:

You do kind of have to have a thick skin and not think about it, uh, to, to

Mark:

answer your question about how many I do a week, it can vary on during slow times.

Mark:

It might be like.

Mark:

Uh, two or three to like half a dozen for me personally.

Mark:

And sometimes you got like a few dozen, uh, auditions a week.

Mark:

So you're, you're, you know, you can have like 20, 30 roles

Mark:

that you're auditioning for.

Mark:

Um, as far as response rates to be perfectly candid, uh, I haven't looked

Mark:

because it's probably very depressing.

Mark:

I know that I have a folder full of thousands of auditions as, as

Mark:

potentially all of my cohorts do as well.

Mark:

And, uh, I'd be, I'd be surprised if it was even 3 percent of responses

Mark:

and I think that, uh, you know, for folks that are more prolific, maybe

Mark:

they have a different, uh, numbers.

Mark:

And that's another one of those things that kind of dovetails into

Mark:

this whole like thick skin thing.

Mark:

You, you cannot think of it like that.

Mark:

I say that adamantly, but I assure you that I think of it all the time.

Mark:

Yeah,

Kat:

we say we say right that we try not to care, but like

Kat:

we really, we really do care.

Kat:

It really does get to us.

Mark:

We know we're not supposed to, but you can't keep your

Mark:

hand out of that cookie jar.

Mark:

So, in a way that that can be frustrating on many levels.

Mark:

I've done for a while.

Mark:

It was like, Oh, I was not as fortunate to have so many auditions I would have, uh,

Mark:

in different situations when, uh, before I had an agent, I was scaring up my own

Mark:

opportunities, which were much slimmer with different agencies and with different

Mark:

amounts of credits on your resume, you may get different opportunities

Mark:

and or less opportunities initially.

Mark:

And so it does build, there is a bit of that build in there, but.

Mark:

At no point for me, at least, has it become like, okay, now we're sailing easy.

Mark:

I can forget about all that.

Mark:

I know I have a consistent, like, return rate.

Mark:

It's just like, nah, any of any consistency within the business

Mark:

comes from the relationships that you make and and how those.

Mark:

Come back around to you, uh, a relationship that you make or your

Mark:

reputation may result in more people reaching out and the more of that

Mark:

you have, inevitably, the more of it gets reflected back again.

Mark:

That's not even a guarantee.

Mark:

Um, but as far as like the mental state in dealing with it is, there are a

Mark:

couple of things that I've had to do.

Mark:

I had a really hard time when I was starting out in, uh, in theater

Mark:

auditions, I would let them get to me.

Mark:

I would fall in love with the thing and I'm prepping.

Mark:

Cause I'll be prepping for like a week or something, working on songs,

Mark:

working on scenes, and you really get into this hopeful mindset.

Mark:

Which I think is good, but at the same time, I've had feedback come to me where

Mark:

it's like, oh, you want it too much.

Mark:

Uh, you're too excited for this.

Mark:

And that's probably me getting, well, in a way, it sounds harsh, but in a way, it's

Mark:

probably my nervousness overtaking myself.

Mark:

And instead of performing honestly, I desperately need the job or

Mark:

validation that part takes over.

Mark:

And so as, as frustrating as it was to recognize that, you

Mark:

know, cause I went through, well, well, how can I not want it?

Mark:

And then still do a good job and it's there's a balance there

Mark:

that is inherently frustrating.

Mark:

It's like you can't, you don't want to attach yourself so much to it.

Mark:

So in a way, making it a job that you're able to move on from and little tricks.

Mark:

I heard something that may have I don't know if this is a true story or

Mark:

not, but like Nick Offerman apparently after auditions goes and like, he

Mark:

has, he does a lot of woodworking and after an audition, he'll go and

Mark:

do his hobby and forget about it.

Mark:

Um, forgetting about what you just did.

Mark:

Is so important and mostly I think that's to say is that it's, it's not

Mark:

that you don't pay attention and prepare you do, but then you, you go, you do

Mark:

your performance and then the show has closed and maybe you'll get asked back.

Mark:

But I mean, especially thinking of auditions as like little performances.

Mark:

I prepare, I go in, I do my performance.

Mark:

The curtain drops.

Mark:

That's it.

Mark:

And and everything else is out of your hands.

Kat:

Yeah, I think Mark, like, it's basically kind of what you're saying,

Kat:

if I can maybe, you know, like, think about it this way, is it's really, it's

Kat:

putting excellence in your work, right?

Kat:

It's not like we can't be perfect, because we don't know what that really means.

Kat:

But like, really just being as excellent as we can be to show up

Kat:

prepared to show up strong, but to completely be detached from the result.

Kat:

Right.

Kat:

Not to attach our value, basically, in who we are as human beings to the

Kat:

result, which I know is very hard to do.

Kat:

Um, but that's, I feel, I feel like that's what it really boils down to, right?

Kat:

Like, it's like, it's, we do our best, but the result is out of our, our hands.

Kat:

We've, we've done what we could do, and hopefully they'll meet us in the

Kat:

middle and the opportunity will come.

Kat:

But if it doesn't, it says nothing.

Kat:

About who we are as people and our value and our talents, right?

Kat:

So in that sense, I guess, so how do you try to get yourself in that mindset?

Kat:

Maybe you have a practice or or any anything that you try to put into so

Kat:

that you can be, Oh, you know, I've done my best and we just let it go.

Mark:

I mean, uh, time has helped, uh, over just, just over time.

Mark:

Like time is great.

Mark:

And, and the older, uh, the older I get, the more experienced I get, the easier it.

Mark:

It has become so, but that's not really a practice getting

Kat:

older is good, huh?

Kat:

Yeah.

Mark:

Well, it can be, it, it, it, it gains you a certain amount of perspective.

Mark:

You start to, we think we're so very in control.

Mark:

And in a way we've been taught that we are very much in control of.

Mark:

All of these moments in our life and, uh, meditating on the idea

Mark:

that there are many things, there's so many things that we cannot and

Mark:

getting rid, allowing that to go yoga.

Mark:

I love physical exercise, uh, personally, I think it's something

Mark:

that, that is, it is in the, in the realm of what I can control.

Mark:

I can very much control.

Mark:

Whether I go to the gym, whether I run, whether I breathe, how I'm

Mark:

stretching, I can, I can control that.

Mark:

And that is all a very personal journey.

Mark:

I can, and I feel like it's also To me, because I, uh, everything that I do

Mark:

for the longest time, I always wanted it to also apply to being an actor.

Mark:

So it's like, I'm going to learn how to ride a horse because that'll

Mark:

be a good skill I'll use one day.

Mark:

Um, but.

Mark:

Truly like taking care of yourself, taking care of your body, I think

Mark:

is very important for everybody.

Mark:

I think it, it reveals an amount of dedication, uh, alongside with your

Mark:

own work ethic, an amount of respect for, for us as actors, it sounds

Mark:

lame, but your instrument, which is literally what we're using, but

Mark:

also, um, keeping myself healthy.

Mark:

In my mind, in my body helps me to be a better person in the world

Mark:

around other people, and it's not, it's not necessarily a vanity thing.

Mark:

Uh, it's, it's nice to feel like you can be capable and go places and look

Mark:

as good as you can, but ultimately like it is that, uh, what helps me is that I

Mark:

get to like, center into myself a little bit and detach myself from all of these

Mark:

externals that I have no control over.

Mark:

Um, and so in that way, like exercise practice has been great.

Mark:

I love go and do a workout because I totally it is it is not My audition

Mark:

whatsoever, and I really kind of get to focus in, get to that meditative state.

Mark:

So, I mean, however one meditates, I think that it is an important thing to do.

Mark:

Um, to go back to, to Billy, he told me for the longest time, he was

Mark:

getting up in the mornings and just like he would take time for himself,

Mark:

like a half hour, and he'd go out on his porch and he would read.

Mark:

He'd go out outside and he'd read, um, something that he enjoyed.

Mark:

A lot of times, you know, it could be anything from like self help

Mark:

books to maybe a fiction that he enjoyed, things like that.

Mark:

It's, um, but having that sort of meditative routine can

Mark:

perhaps help you to meet the day.

Mark:

And meet the challenges of it and knowing that you can return to that

Mark:

as like a little bit of a touch point.

Mark:

Um, so that's one thing, the people in our lives, I think are important,

Mark:

you know, having, having anyone you can disconnect from these things.

Mark:

What my problem is and sometimes, sometimes this gets

Mark:

in the way, especially since.

Mark:

Our business as actors is very much one that we find in moments

Mark:

where other people relax.

Mark:

People are like, Oh, I go home and I watch a show because

Mark:

that washes everything away.

Mark:

Um, and it can be frustrating when you're like, yeah, I can go home and watch a

Mark:

show and be like, Oh, those actors, all those actors doing what I want to do.

Mark:

And like, well, how are they doing it?

Mark:

Who's casting this?

Mark:

You know, you get.

Mark:

It's like, that is, that is not helping if you can meaningfully detach.

Mark:

So, I, I play, I love video games, obviously, and I play a lot of games.

Mark:

One game that I am playing right now is just, there is no voice acting in it.

Kat:

So, so you're not, like, listening to What are

Mark:

you, what are you gaming on right now?

Mark:

I'm playing Cult of the Lamb, and it has been, uh, very, very revealing

Mark:

to a lot of, like, it's been very cathartic and revealing to my psyche.

Mark:

Um, but I love games like that, like Hollow Knight, uh, Hyper Light Drifter.

Mark:

I love good, you know, indie games that have, like, fantastic music, Civilization.

Mark:

Granted, it still has Sean Bean in it, um, and, you know, we're getting

Mark:

another installment coming up here.

Mark:

But, like, that I can at least I listen to the bits and bobs, soak it in.

Mark:

It's comforting.

Mark:

There are some games I'm able to fully detach myself.

Kat:

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Lee:

One thing I want to jump in with real quick is I'm going to nerd out

Lee:

with you for a half a minute here.

Lee:

And Kat's going to roll her eyes and maybe like start off in the space for a minute.

Lee:

But, um, you mentioned final fantasy seven.

Lee:

And like, for me, I came off of a year, my junior year of high school.

Lee:

Um, it started with my grandma that died.

Lee:

And then, All the way into my senior year, my, uh, a good friend of mine, uh,

Lee:

ended his life, um, over Christmas break.

Lee:

And then, um, I graduated in 97, same year Final Fantasy came out.

Lee:

So all the themes in Final Fantasy about loss and love and

Lee:

everything else, that game hit.

Lee:

I don't even know why I'm feeling emotional all of a sudden.

Lee:

But

Mark:

like, that game.

Mark:

I know why you're feeling emotional all of a sudden.

Mark:

Because this stuff like hits.

Lee:

Yeah, and like that game, I've played through probably the original

Lee:

one probably about seven or eight times.

Lee:

And then, um, obviously there's the remake that came out.

Lee:

Um, having like personal connections with the game.

Lee:

I, I didn't, we didn't know each other that well at that stage.

Lee:

Um, and um, But, like, knowing John was in it, uh, just put a whole new,

Lee:

like, layer on top of that game.

Lee:

And, like, the whole time that you're talking right now, I'm thinking

Lee:

of, like, uh, Leslie in the game.

Lee:

And all the, the whole Don Corneo scene and all that.

Lee:

Um,

Mark:

so, thank you for your work.

Mark:

Yeah, and his, his story, too, is like, I mean, I know it's, it's

Mark:

not included in the original.

Mark:

It's, it's more from the fan, from the fictions that were, uh, put out.

Mark:

But, and then Injected into the game, but man, I, I love his story.

Mark:

I, I think that that's it again, what final fantasy does is they, they do a

Mark:

good job of diving into these emotional moments, even if it's for just a little

Mark:

bit of a side story, his search for his fiancee, uh, and that sort of loss.

Mark:

And I mean, if you're really sorted, they don't get super dark with it, but I

Mark:

can't imagine it's a good situation, uh, over there with Don Corneo, uh, I mean,

Mark:

there's some, some heavy stuff in there.

Lee:

Thank you for like doing your part in the role because the, the

Lee:

stories and the feelings, the emotions, everything that you're bringing, you

Lee:

know, to the audience, um, has such a deep impact, like honor psyche, like

Lee:

you said, just making us feel better.

Lee:

You're like helping in my disconnect from like the stresses of the day

Lee:

or with things that I'm working on.

Lee:

And, um, I wanted to, I'll just kind of circling around, um, with the video

Lee:

game world or with auditions in general that you've done, I was wondering

Lee:

about like the highs and the lows.

Lee:

So, like, do you remember an audition that you were just kind of destroyed

Lee:

after and then another audition where you booked it and it was, I don't know, the

Lee:

best thing since sliced bread for you.

Lee:

Oh gosh, um,

Mark:

There's, There are, uh, Some of the auditions that, I don't know if

Mark:

I've necessarily been fully destroyed.

Mark:

Although, you know, back to a lot of the theater auditions uh, that I did, I, I

Mark:

was I was pretty down about Avenue Q.

Mark:

Uh, I got pretty close, uh, on, on Avenue Q, the tour and or Broadway production.

Mark:

I was in puppet school, uh, right before I was meant to go

Mark:

in for the final, final callback.

Mark:

Uh, I got very, very sick.

Mark:

I lost my voice completely for like a week.

Mark:

And, um, I missed that opportunity obviously did not get cast.

Mark:

Um, I couldn't listen to Avenue Q for.

Mark:

Years.

Mark:

I was just like, I can't, I, I, and that's the thing.

Mark:

I was young.

Mark:

I was so very attached to it.

Mark:

So many of those songs, uh, started meaning so much to me and, and I had this,

Mark:

this belief that you have when you're, when you're young and in love, um, and,

Mark:

and maybe even when you're older and in love too, because there are plenty

Mark:

of things that I auditioned for now.

Mark:

So I just.

Mark:

It's so rapid fire in VO that I don't have time to fall in love

Mark:

like I used to all the time.

Mark:

Um, but uh, but with the slower pace of theater, like

Mark:

I listened to that soundtrack.

Mark:

I, I drank that show in and I dedicated a lot of time to it.

Mark:

And, um, And yeah, that one really was, was pretty painful and I, I

Mark:

couldn't, I couldn't, I didn't want to like interface with it anymore.

Mark:

And that sucks.

Mark:

It's probably not the best way to deal with that.

Mark:

And I acknowledge it.

Lee:

What

Mark:

did you learn

Lee:

as you go through, you know, and what were some of the learning

Lee:

lessons from that experience?

Lee:

What did

Mark:

I learn, Mark?

Mark:

Did I learn anything from it?

Mark:

Um, I mean, I did learn that in a way, for me, for better or worse,

Mark:

disconnection and distance does help.

Mark:

Um, because otherwise I just carry around bitterness.

Mark:

Uh, with me, and, and in, in lieu of bitterness, I was like,

Mark:

Disconnection seems better than active me being a, a grump.

Mark:

Um, because then I'm bringing that weird energy to everyone

Mark:

else who also enjoys it.

Mark:

And the reason I'm bitter is because I enjoy it so much.

Mark:

Too much.

Mark:

And so stepping back and allowing other people around me to have to

Mark:

not bring my negativity along with me was helpful until a point where

Mark:

I could personally process it.

Mark:

And I could still see people calling me out for that, but whatever, it's, it's,

Mark:

it's our own like healing journeys.

Mark:

And I'd like to think that at least I had the presence of mind to.

Mark:

to uh, not put my healing journey on everybody else.

Mark:

But the flip side of this story is that eventually I did get into Avenue

Mark:

Q out here in Los Angeles and it was an amazing experience and I met so many

Mark:

fun people and there was, it, it came back at this Time when it was just right

Mark:

and I I had been puppeteering for a while at that point and this audition

Mark:

came back And it wasn't broadway.

Mark:

It wasn't a tour.

Mark:

It was a 99 seat theater out here um But I fell in love with the show

Mark:

again And, and I was ready to come back and step back into things.

Mark:

I had like, whatever my, whatever my insecurity or my childishness

Mark:

about it was, I had dealt with it.

Mark:

I had let it go.

Mark:

And I was like, I'm ready to audition for this again.

Mark:

And man, man, do I love it.

Mark:

Like I always have.

Mark:

And, and I was lucky enough to get into it.

Kat:

I'm getting chills just listening to this story.

Kat:

Like, seriously, it's so good.

Kat:

Okay, keep going.

Kat:

It's so good.

Mark:

I didn't even book the part that I thought I was.

Mark:

I thought I was a Princeton Rod for sure.

Mark:

In fact, that's what I auditioned for.

Mark:

And the part that I booked was Nikki Trekkie, which I never saw myself as.

Mark:

But when I stepped into that part during the show, I was like, Oh, oh god, I should

Mark:

have been auditioning for this all along.

Mark:

I was not right for the other part.

Mark:

I, I just am not that guy.

Mark:

I come across as it, I probably look like it, but I was so much

Mark:

more suited to that other part.

Mark:

And that moment, and it turned out being wonderful.

Mark:

I met fantastic friends, uh, that I still keep in touch with.

Mark:

And, um, and, and here's another like random story of divine providence.

Mark:

I ended up getting onto a TV show through that show.

Mark:

Uh, Jeff Marks, uh, really loved our production and and

Mark:

Richard Israel was our director.

Mark:

He's fantastic, uh, through through those connections and those people,

Mark:

uh, the show Big Little Lies needed a production of Avenue Q and and they

Mark:

came back to us and they're like, Hey, do you want to be on this TV show?

Mark:

Uh, as as Nikki and Trekkie and and I was like, Sure.

Mark:

I mean, it's like, it's like a, it's a glorious background part, but I

Mark:

was like, I never thought, I never thought it would take me to this place.

Mark:

So you just.

Mark:

I don't know.

Mark:

The whole Avenue Q journey, I never knew it was that important to me, I guess.

Mark:

But it turned out to be something very important and all at once surprising, you

Mark:

know, in ways I never could have known.

Kat:

It's like a full circle moment that you never really, um, expected.

Kat:

But it's just such a beautiful illustration of like, you know, when we

Kat:

lose something, sometimes it's because And it hurts us so badly or deeply, right?

Kat:

It's because we really think that, Oh, this should be our time.

Kat:

It is our time.

Kat:

We should have gotten this one.

Kat:

It's our time.

Kat:

And then we lose it.

Kat:

And then we didn't realize that, Oh, it's going to, it's going to come back.

Kat:

Like it, it will, you just don't know.

Lee:

I don't know why I have the illustration of like a seed, like

Lee:

when it's something painful or something that we feel like we

Lee:

lost, like we're letting it go.

Lee:

We're putting it in the ground, just letting it go.

Lee:

But then like we could return later and it's got fruit, shade,

Lee:

comfort, you know, beauty.

Lee:

To it years later, you know, or maybe it's just, it's gone, but you let

Lee:

it go and you grow and you just kind of, you have to kind of truck on.

Lee:

But yeah, that's a, that's an awesome story, Mark, about kind of

Lee:

loss and reliving and recapture of,

Mark:

of victories and that.

Kat:

I love it.

Mark:

Truly only something that can be traced back to its origin from

Mark:

the perspective that I'm at now.

Mark:

I'm like, Oh, I knew all along that this was heading in that direction.

Mark:

It's like.

Mark:

I didn't know you're right.

Mark:

It's it's very much that seed.

Mark:

If you buy a packet of them and it's just mixed seeds, you don't know what they are.

Mark:

But if you are planting them and planting each one, things do happen over time.

Mark:

Things do come back around in ways that are totally unexpected.

Mark:

And that's That's another thing that I've come to appreciate a lot as, uh, my

Mark:

career has progressed is that I, I don't know where connections are going to go.

Mark:

I think that's such an important thing is that I did not know that we were going to

Mark:

be doing this podcast together and I, I don't know what we're going to be doing

Mark:

10 years from now, but it's, it's nice to, to, you know, you, you come in and

Mark:

out of people's orbit in strange ways.

Mark:

And, um, and there's something fascinating and unknowable about that.

Mark:

And if you can give over to it, and I think that's where you find the ease that

Mark:

takes your desperation away from a moment of I have to have this thing if you can

Mark:

give into a larger view of time and how time flows, you can maybe Just loosen your

Mark:

grip a little bit on your desire to have that exact thing at that exact moment.

Mark:

I didn't need to get into Avenue Q at that exact moment.

Mark:

Would it have been cool?

Mark:

Sure.

Mark:

But was that the end of the story?

Mark:

Clearly it wasn't.

Mark:

Mm hmm.

Lee:

Oh.

Lee:

Because then that, you know, you think about it too.

Lee:

It's like if, say you had gotten it, it's just a different trajectory.

Lee:

And like this, this audition that you did in Uh, Los Angeles and

Lee:

booked, like you probably would maybe, I've already done that.

Kat:

Yeah.

Lee:

Let me know something else.

Mark:

Might not have even been in Los Angeles.

Mark:

100%.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

If I had done that, there's entirely a whole different, like, bizarro fork,

Mark:

uh, Marvel, what if, if that I end up in New York for the rest of my life, right?

Mark:

I mean, like, and then I miss out on.

Mark:

Friends that I met in Florida, friends that I met down at

Mark:

Disneyland, friends that at my wife that I've met out here when I'm

Mark:

in California, like, I don't know.

Mark:

And, and this isn't to say like, Again, I look back and I'm grateful for all the

Mark:

things that have flowed through this time.

Mark:

And is that to say like, oh, but if I had gotten Avenue Q, I'd have grown

Mark:

a mustache and been like super evil.

Mark:

It's like, no, life would have been different.

Kat:

Yeah.

Kat:

And we don't know what that would have been.

Kat:

And

Mark:

we don't know.

Mark:

And it could be equally wonderful.

Mark:

I think there is, there is wonderful stuff around us, all around us.

Kat:

Yeah,

Mark:

I

Lee:

think it's the gratefulness.

Lee:

Um, or it's, it's an, a opportunity for us to be grateful and thankful for the,

Lee:

you know, for the, the loss, the pain, but then the strength and the courage that

Lee:

we've gained from those experiences, what we've learned and where it's carried us

Lee:

to, because like the things that you're celebrating right now and that are in your

Lee:

life are a direct result of your past.

Lee:

And, um, instead of, you know, uh, I could have been a evil, dictator with mustaches,

Lee:

like you're, you're celebrating, you know, I'm, yeah, you know, you're celebrating.

Lee:

I have a wife in LA.

Lee:

I'm doing life.

Lee:

I have cats.

Lee:

I'm a flame Ashera.

Lee:

This is like so cool.

Kat:

Okay.

Kat:

Hold on.

Kat:

Hold on.

Kat:

The flame.

Kat:

So, okay.

Kat:

So, so Mark, I don't watch.

Kat:

Anime, he got me into literally watching one thing and that was Demon Slayer.

Kat:

It's the only thing I've watched, okay.

Kat:

And I actually really thoroughly enjoy it.

Kat:

I was surprised myself because I, I, I'm just not into it, you know, but he

Kat:

is completely into it, but I love it.

Kat:

It's so good.

Kat:

And we're so bummed

Lee:

at the end of the train.

Lee:

It's such a beautiful way to go, but like, gosh,

Kat:

But what's, what's your favorite, um, Uh, about working, favorite thing,

Kat:

I guess, about working as uh, Rengoku.

Mark:

Oh, uh, gosh.

Mark:

Rengoku has quite literally, it has very much changed my life.

Mark:

If there's one role that I can point at that has fundamentally changed a lot of

Mark:

things about just like, Like I've gone to tons of conventions to meet folks.

Mark:

I've been involved with this, uh, this little cultural touchstone and not

Mark:

even a little cultural touchstone.

Kat:

It's got a cult following.

Kat:

It does have a

Mark:

cult.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

A big cult.

Mark:

It's

Kat:

got such a huge fan base.

Mark:

The most important thing about this, like I've, I've loved,

Mark:

uh, I love working in, in theater.

Mark:

I love working in entertainment.

Mark:

What Rangoku has done when we talk about, when you talk about your story with Final

Mark:

Fantasy, um, and the way it's affected you and the way it's helped you to connect

Mark:

with loss in your own life, and perhaps to process some of that loss, whenever I've,

Mark:

when I've started going to conventions.

Mark:

Um, and meeting people, and seeing Rengoku cosplay, and

Mark:

seeing the Rengoku merchandise, but then seeing Rengoku tattoos.

Mark:

People who have Set Your Heart Ablaze, Rengoku's face, sword, uh, dying

Mark:

moments tattooed on their bodies.

Mark:

Hearing people say that it has helped them process.

Mark:

Uh, getting through school, getting through a tough time at work, getting

Mark:

through a tough time where they think they might take their own life

Mark:

and things like that, where with the loss of their own brother, you

Mark:

know, like I've I've heard stories.

Mark:

More of these stories than I can count now and, and that's what it means

Mark:

to me is that, that, that, uh, it's, it's exactly what you were saying

Mark:

about how this affects our lives.

Mark:

And I had no idea that this was going to have the effect.

Mark:

Uh, Going into it.

Mark:

I knew it was a cool role.

Mark:

I knew it was a cool show.

Mark:

Uh, I knew the script was good Um, I I was excited to step up to the plate and

Mark:

do it But the real the real treasure of it has been After the aftermath and seeing

Mark:

everybody and seeing the impact that it's had and, and that I, I don't know.

Mark:

I don't know when that gets matched again.

Mark:

Um, you know, and, uh, and to be a small part of that is,

Mark:

is, um, It's, it's tremendous.

Mark:

And, uh, and I don't often know how to, how to deal with it other than

Mark:

to just like, be quiet, listen, make eye contact, be present, you know,

Mark:

and, and like, take it, take it in and know that this is, this is everything

Mark:

that I believe that creativity and art is capable of achieving.

Mark:

Um, and because I know I've felt it in my own ways, in the same

Mark:

way that you have, uh, with maybe not with this in particular.

Mark:

I mean, with this now for sure, um, And even in the moment of recording, I

Mark:

mean, I, I was, it was affecting me too.

Mark:

Uh, as, as I was recording it, um, funny, funny little divergent story.

Mark:

I was reading a script, uh, today.

Mark:

And one thing that I do like about art and creativity in general is as

Mark:

I'm reading through this, uh, I'm reading through lines of this character

Mark:

and the bio and whatnot, and I got to a point where I was like, Oh my

Mark:

God, I know exactly how you feel.

Mark:

This, this thing like just hit me and I was like, Oh my, I see,

Mark:

I see my, I see a little bit of myself in my own experience there.

Mark:

And, and I think that it's great.

Mark:

It's great to be able to like meet those moments where that is reflected.

Mark:

And I think that is part of that human connection, uh, uh, that allows

Mark:

us to process our own lives, to see other people, to be empathetic.

Mark:

So, I mean, it's even with this, I don't know if I'll get it.

Mark:

Thank you.

Mark:

I don't know what'll happen.

Mark:

I'll go in, I'll audition.

Mark:

But to me, again, to bring it back to Demon Slayer, that's the most

Mark:

special part of Demon Slayer, to me.

Mark:

And my involvement with it.

Mark:

And, uh, I, I, I couldn't feel more grateful, uh, and more lucky to Are

Kat:

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Lee:

It's just such a gift, I think for, I mean, that goes both ways.

Lee:

You know, like the healing, the connection, the processing that you get

Lee:

to do as you go through these characters, but then now like you're seeing it all

Lee:

the different cons and all this different things, just the, the true impact.

Lee:

Yeah.

Lee:

Like the power that's in, in theater, in arts, in music, in just creativity.

Lee:

Like there's so much of a, a power that's there that.

Lee:

Like, I'm thinking like kids in school and stuff, like they don't always get

Lee:

that opportunity because they're focused on like filling in the right bubbles

Lee:

for the SAT or ACT or whatever, or learning your basic math and English

Lee:

and everything, but not understanding the connection of like the human

Lee:

performance, the human creativity, like how, how that can help them.

Lee:

spur and bring everything else to life and really make us feel whole and healed,

Lee:

you know, in so many different ways.

Lee:

And it's such a power that, um, you've been given, Mark.

Lee:

And it's awesome to see, um, how that's working through you and in you also.

Lee:

Yeah.

Kat:

Yeah.

Kat:

Getting these characters to come to life.

Kat:

Um, it's just like, it's really awesome.

Kat:

Thank you for sharing that, Mark.

Kat:

It just really makes me, I mean, we both know Mark, you know, we, we love stories.

Kat:

I think as, as artists, we love stories when we, when we love music,

Kat:

We love stories because good music has good stories to them, right?

Kat:

And, and, and of course, like the, the composition and the instrumentation

Kat:

and all of that good stuff.

Kat:

But, um, it just really encourages me because part of the, uh, the shift that

Kat:

I've been doing kind of like in my own life is, Being a life coach for kids,

Kat:

and it's really, um, teaching them life skills, but it's through stories.

Kat:

So, I'm just so fortunate enough that, you know, I was looking of

Kat:

a way, like, how can I do this?

Kat:

How can I teach kids, like, you know, the value of mindset, the value of,

Kat:

like, the confidence, how to have soaring self esteem, how, you know,

Kat:

how to, how to have these things, and how to shift your perspective.

Kat:

When things don't go your way, right?

Kat:

That's like, that's the thing, right?

Kat:

Like we, we experience that all the time.

Kat:

And especially if you are an actor auditioning actively,

Kat:

that happens all the time.

Kat:

Right.

Kat:

But it just doesn't happen to actors.

Kat:

It happens to everybody, right?

Kat:

Like things not going your way.

Kat:

How do you shift your perspective?

Kat:

And my thought was like, well, how do you teach that to kids?

Kat:

Like.

Kat:

If they're like six, how do you teach that without lecturing them about it, you know?

Kat:

And so I fortunately found a program, it's called Adventures in Wisdom, and

Kat:

so I got certified in it, and it's basically teaching all these life skills,

Kat:

but it's literally through story form.

Kat:

So it's every life skill has a story, and, and you teach it.

Kat:

Take the kids through it and it's through guided questions and, and all that.

Kat:

But to kind of put it together, I not invented, but I just

Kat:

came up from my own experience.

Kat:

So I'm basically doing stories, movement, art of music.

Kat:

We're applying it to real life application and then transformation,

Kat:

which is what they're going to get out of that whole process.

Kat:

Right?

Kat:

So it's not just a story, but it's embodying it into our bodies through

Kat:

physical movement and actually putting it into music through playing the piano.

Kat:

So what you're sharing.

Kat:

It's basically the beginning, the story part is the beginning point of like my

Kat:

entrance way, my gateway to teaching these kids about these life skills.

Kat:

And so you sharing that really just gave me, every time I hear

Kat:

someone, you know, say these things, it, it just gives me even more.

Kat:

Not that I need more validation because I know this is a good thing,

Kat:

but it just helps, you know, it really helps to confirm it more.

Mark:

I absolutely a fantastic.

Mark:

I think that what you're doing to, especially when you're bringing it

Mark:

into the physical space when, when you were talking about that, a thought

Mark:

came to my mind where I was like it.

Mark:

I think it's the idealistic thought of any parent, uh, or adult is

Mark:

that, oh, if I could only tell.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

The future generation, all of these things so that they don't have to go

Mark:

through it so that they will just know.

Mark:

Um, and, and I think that the point that maybe we perpetually are up against is

Mark:

that knowing is one component of it.

Mark:

Embodying and feeling and even, you know, at times, as hard as it is,

Mark:

experiencing it is, Uh, is a part of it perhaps inevitable in many, if not

Mark:

all cases that not only knowing and having that knowledge, but then meeting

Mark:

every moment because I think those moments are coming, whether we want to

Mark:

protect or not and what you're doing to like, kind of bring it into that

Mark:

physical space could be just another component to, to meet it physically,

Mark:

to generate that, that Uh, so that, so that those lessons can be learned in a

Mark:

more tactile fashion with other humans.

Mark:

Uh, I know we're doing this over a screen and, and through a podcast.

Mark:

And I know that there's like this whole AI threat looming or, you

Mark:

know, whatever you want to call it, but I think it's so important to be.

Mark:

With each other, I think there is an importance there, uh, and

Mark:

in this capability, no matter how good a tool a I will be here.

Mark:

We still all physically will be.

Mark:

And if we're not, if we're not learning and experiencing with each other, I think

Mark:

we're perhaps shortchanging ourselves.

Mark:

And or setting ourselves up for a lot of difficult situations later on.

Mark:

So what you're doing to like, make it physical, uh, seems brilliant.

Mark:

And I, I hope that there is so much success there.

Kat:

Thank you.

Kat:

Yeah.

Lee:

Quick, quick question on the physical side of things.

Lee:

Um, I'm just thinking of.

Lee:

Uh, the different roles that you've played are like as you're doing different

Lee:

auditions, like we're listening to some of the commercial auditions that you've done.

Lee:

Like Mark Gibbs

Kat:

sold me Taco Bell and Neeson Leaf.

Kat:

Oh, okay.

Kat:

You've been selling me all these things.

Kat:

I didn't know, huh?

Mark:

Well, I actually technically on my commercial

Mark:

demo, Those were fabricated spots.

Mark:

So a lot of times when you make a demo, you will do things that you haven't,

Mark:

uh, necessarily done to display.

Kat:

Oh, right.

Mark:

Well, you sound great.

Mark:

So let's just, however, I have sold you Dramamine ginger chews and cheese.

Mark:

It's so

Lee:

all right.

Lee:

So as you're doing some of these things, though, what I'm curious about, cause

Lee:

like Uh, well, we were talking about Rengoku, so if we're talking about

Lee:

the Demon Slayer side of things, he's jumping around, slicing, cutting.

Lee:

I'm just imagining you in

Kat:

your booth.

Lee:

Yeah, like, In this booth.

Lee:

We recorded it in here.

Lee:

Yeah, does that happen?

Lee:

Like, do you have to, or does it help you to get physical as you're

Lee:

doing your, your, uh, voiceover work?

Lee:

Or do you have to kind of like, imagine it all in your head and just, blah, let it

Lee:

just, you know, You know, come out of you.

Lee:

Cause like that, your

Kat:

zombie sounds, sorry.

Mark:

Right.

Mark:

So, I mean, technically you do need to, you want to, if you have a little

Mark:

microphone, you do want to stay on mic and like static, um, and probably

Mark:

closer than I am to it, you know, you want to be like on axis, but.

Mark:

One of the things that opened my mind up when doing voiceover is being

Mark:

physical, is bringing your body to it, is moving around, there's, there's,

Mark:

engineers, audio engineers are wizards, and they can do a lot of, not that

Mark:

they want to, but they can do a lot of like post processing, cleaning.

Mark:

Uh, of things.

Mark:

So there is an amount of movement you can get.

Mark:

Obviously you don't want to get too shifty in movie because it creates a lot of work

Mark:

down the line and it doesn't provide for good clean audio, but yes, absolutely.

Mark:

Using your body.

Mark:

This whole booth was just like.

Mark:

Bogged up, uh, at the end of that fight scene, because it's just, you're putting

Mark:

so much into it and, um, Yeah, there was a thing that I wanted to say about

Mark:

like those moments when we're talking about physicality, a lot of times.

Mark:

When I'm, when I'll be in, in like a role or an audition at the best of times,

Mark:

I feel like it's when I am physically connected to it, I would lie down.

Mark:

I was in a production of rent and I would just lie down and, and,

Mark:

uh, and listen to, uh, I would be listening to the recording just to

Mark:

kind of like get a sense of the show.

Mark:

And I would almost be like mentally going through the emotional Uh, obstacle

Mark:

course in my own head as I'm listening to it and feeling it in different parts

Mark:

of my body and going on that mental journey and, um, and practicing a

Mark:

sort of like active internal empathy.

Mark:

That I, I swear I've never said that term before, but I'm going to

Mark:

potentially use it a lot more because I think it is physical inside of us.

Mark:

Um, and especially at the end of this arc, when he looks up and sees his mother.

Mark:

Um, and one thing that I do love about anime is they do so much with, it

Mark:

sometimes gets gaffed where they're like,

Mark:

where they're doing a lot of those intakes and exhalations of breath

Mark:

that can sometimes become, um, What's the term I'm looking for?

Mark:

They can sometimes become like trite or overused or the, or maybe this

Mark:

source of like, Oh, that's just a, a thing that's performative, but in a

Mark:

way that's that breath, that exhalation can become a very physical instead of

Mark:

a technical thing where it's just like.

Mark:

It can become physically, uh, uh, you know, emotionally motivated

Mark:

that gives it just a little bit of extra dimension to it.

Mark:

And especially at the end of that, uh, arc when he is seeing his mother.

Mark:

You better believe that I was internally like also like weeping

Mark:

as part of the audience, but like having to then harness that emotion.

Mark:

I feel like emotion bangs around inside of us in our heads, in our

Mark:

hearts as a very physical thing.

Mark:

And to me, like the best times in acting is when that physical thing

Mark:

is kicking around and you can kind of dance with it inside of you.

Mark:

Um, and I think it brings that, that sort of extra 10, 20 percent

Mark:

of something unidentifiable and special to a moment like that.

Mark:

And even that is internally, uh, maybe I'm not like jumping, doing jumping jacks

Mark:

or pushups in that moment, but there is something very physically happening.

Mark:

There's, there's a storm inside that is brewing and, and I think it's where you

Mark:

can also like, you see it a lot in film.

Mark:

Some of the best moments in film are when no one's talking, when they're just.

Mark:

focused on somebody and you can be focused on somebody who is like dead behind the

Mark:

eyes and get nothing, but you can be focused on some of these great actors

Mark:

and actresses in these performances.

Mark:

And you know that there is just, there is chaos happening inside

Mark:

their heads at that moment.

Mark:

And that's.

Mark:

Apparent, it's so apparent and we may not as the audience be able to say, ah, that's

Mark:

exactly what's happening, but we feel it.

Mark:

We know it's happening.

Mark:

And that to me is like, that is the important part.

Mark:

Wow.

Mark:

That's great.

Kat:

Wow.

Kat:

Mark, this is, no, this is so good.

Kat:

This is so good.

Kat:

Thank you so much.

Kat:

I guess we're gonna, you know, wrap it up because we want to

Kat:

be respectful of your time.

Kat:

Although I feel like Lee definitely probably has

Mark:

so

Kat:

much more to ask.

Mark:

I'm a talker too.

Mark:

So again, I will fill gaps.

Mark:

I'm not that far behind of you either.

Kat:

So I guess the kind of like the final question for us, you know, we

Kat:

always love, asking our guests this because it's great to see the different

Kat:

answers because everybody has different perspective and life experiences.

Kat:

But what's your idea or, um, you know, your own take on a wildly wealthy life?

Kat:

What does that mean to you?

Kat:

I think

Mark:

I was, I was thinking about this, uh, a little bit, uh, or I mean,

Mark:

maybe not this specific question, but, uh, but in terms of like, what

Mark:

matters to me, I think it's, it's, it's maybe to simplify it, doing your

Mark:

best, despite what the return is, you know, cause a lot of times I, I, I've.

Mark:

I've thought about this career in, in many ways, and I guess I'm

Mark:

just talking about career, but I think that's the whole point.

Mark:

There's something beyond career, as we say, like, oh, a career is when you

Mark:

fill out some, uh, W whatevers, uh, they give you, uh, monopoly money, or beans,

Mark:

or whatever the currency is in return.

Mark:

You get to purchase a bunch of baubles that, uh, that you surround yourself

Mark:

with, and, uh, and, you know, Throw some parties, but I think there's so

Mark:

much like the pursuit of creativity being good at a thing for, for the

Mark:

sake of being good, being good to other people for the sake of that.

Mark:

And I know we live in a society that attaches a lot of importance

Mark:

to success, uh, as it pertains to what happens on a spreadsheet.

Mark:

And I just simply don't think that that's what.

Mark:

Life's about, uh, I hope it's not what life's about.

Mark:

I hope it's about something.

Mark:

Well, I hope, and I personally believe that it's about something different

Mark:

and, and I, I get excited when I see good things, whether they're the most

Mark:

popular and, and well funded things or whether they are, you know, a shoestring

Mark:

doing it for the love of it, budget.

Mark:

Or, you know, I, I think, I think goodness exists independent of

Mark:

how much money gets thrown at it.

Mark:

And I think that that is.

Mark:

What we'd all do well to maybe pay a bit more attention to pursuing.

Kat:

Yeah.

Mark:

So that's my hope.

Lee:

That's great.

Lee:

And Mark, with everybody going to buy a PlayStation, buying a couple

Lee:

copies of Remake and Rebirth, sitting down on Netflix and binge

Lee:

watching, uh, Demon Slayer, where else can people find you, Mark?

Mark:

Oh, uh, a lot of, hopefully in, in the next, uh, AAA and or Indie game

Mark:

that's coming out, uh, hopefully in your next favorite, uh, game console,

Mark:

PC, Mac, whatever you play on.

Mark:

Um, uh, they can find me on IMDB and a bunch of previous shows and stuff.

Mark:

You can hopefully find me at a convention coming to town near you.

Mark:

I swear I'm trying to get to all of them.

Mark:

All different places across the country.

Mark:

Um, I'm on Instagram, uh, and Whitten, uh, I'm on Twitter for the moment at

Mark:

MP Whitten, and I also do a couple of, uh, podcasts, well, I've had a

Mark:

couple of audio drama podcasts that got produced in the past that are very

Mark:

near and dear to my own creative heart.

Mark:

Uh, it's myself and my friend, Veronica, she wrote, uh, I did a lot of the

Mark:

audio production on them and acted in.

Mark:

Pretty much all of them.

Mark:

Uh, it's the theater of tomorrow and the hotel.

Mark:

It is where I met my wife, Kelly, doing the theater of tomorrow.

Mark:

Uh, they're very fun audio drama podcasts.

Mark:

If anyone needs a quick listen when you're on, on the road on a, on a trip

Mark:

or something, and you want to throw on some sci fi or some moody, broody horror,

Mark:

you can tune into either of those.

Mark:

So, lots of places and hopefully more.

Lee:

I have a hour and a half drive to, uh, Malibu a few times a week and.

Lee:

I might be doing that on, uh, this tomorrow morning, actually.

Lee:

So

Mark:

yeah, here we go.

Mark:

Check them out.

Mark:

Let me know what you, what you think.

Mark:

Uh, we're, we're real proud of them.

Mark:

And, uh, like I said, it's a theater of tomorrow is a sci fi anthology.

Mark:

Lots of different fun stories.

Mark:

Hotel is again, more of that moody, uh, uh, horror that follows consistent

Mark:

characters through a lot of seasons.

Kat:

Yeah,

Mark:

that's

Kat:

awesome.

Mark:

Thank you, Mark.

Mark:

Thank you, Mark.

Kat:

This is so wonderful.

Kat:

It's so good to see you and chat with you.

Mark:

Well, this has been lovely.

Mark:

Thank you again.

Mark:

And um, I'm so glad we got a chance to connect and chat and

Mark:

uh, I'm wishing you all the best and hopefully see you real soon.

Mark:

Thank you.

Kat:

Yeah.

Kat:

All right, friends.

Kat:

That's a wrap on today's episode of Wildly Wealthy Life.

Kat:

We hope you're feeling fired up and ready to take on the world with

Kat:

your brilliant mind and brave heart.

Lee:

If you love this episode, make sure you hit that subscribe button on YouTube

Lee:

or your favorite podcast platform.

Lee:

It helps us keep bringing you the good stuff.

Kat:

And hey, while you're at it, drop us a rating or review.

Kat:

It takes like, what, 30 seconds and it makes a huge difference for us.

Lee:

Also, if you know someone who could use a little guidance on growth,

Lee:

mindset, leadership, and creativity, share this episode with them.

Lee:

Sometimes that one conversation can spark up a whole new direction.

Kat:

Thanks for hanging out with us today.

Kat:

Go out there, live wildly, be wealthy in all the ways that matter to you.

Kat:

And we'll catch you on the next one.

Show artwork for Wildly Wealthy Life

About the Podcast

Wildly Wealthy Life

Hey There!

We’re Lee and Kat, the voices behind the Wildly Wealthy Life podcast, where we dive into what it really means to live a fulfilling, extraordinary life—one built on mindset, leadership, and creativity.

Back in 2020, we launched the podcast with a focus on interviewing people who had either gained financial freedom or were well on their way. The common thread in every story? Intentional generosity. We shared real stories from people who are living with purpose and giving back.

We made it to 30 episodes, but life had other plans—between launching a new business, losing Lee’s dad, and navigating our own personal challenges, we decided to take a pause and regroup. The world was going through a lot, and so were we.

But even in the midst of all that, we stayed grounded in what matters most to us: living intentionally and generously. Our marriage started with nearly $100K in debt, but through persistence and hard work, we paid it off and went on to buy five properties with a total of 13 units. That journey tested our grit and tenacity, proving to us that no challenge is too great when you're driven by purpose and determination.

When we were ready to relaunch, we knew the focus needed to shift. Now, Wildly Wealthy Life isn’t just about financial freedom—it’s about how brilliant minds and brave hearts, fueled by creativity, a growth mindset, and strong leadership skills, truly lead to an extraordinary life.

As we navigate this journey, we find joy in the little things—like spending time with our three fur babies, King Boogie, Prince Goose, and Princess Smokey. We’ve fostered over 20 kittens, and while we’ve faced the heartache of struggling to have kids after 18 years of marriage, caring for these little furballs has brought us comfort and laughter during some challenging times.

A few other things that bring us joy are gaming, hiking, and all things martial arts for Lee, along with building everything from furniture to model planes. For Kat, it’s all about reading, playing the piano, and having fun with aerial arts. We’re also passionate travelers and have had the privilege of taking our families on wonderful trips around the world.

Our marriage, like any other, has had its ups and downs, but each experience has only deepened our belief that true wealth comes from living with purpose and positively impacting those around us.

We’re excited to bring that message to each episode of Wildly Wealthy Life. So, whether you’re tuning in for mindset shifts, leadership tips, or a creative spark, we hope to inspire you to live your own Wildly Wealthy Life.

To Your Wild Growth,
Lee and Kat